[The Champ]

I guess that some dealers operate in ways described above.

But I've found in my last 3 buying experiences, with 3 different dealers, to be relatively enjoyable experiences. One transaction did not involve a trade, the other two did. Both trades were vehicles I had purchased new. The first trade was a 10 year old Pontiac Torrent that I paid $17,300 for (left over 2006 model purchased in March 2007 - had GM credit card cash to lower sale price) with 156,000 miles on it and I was happy with the $3,500 trade value. The second one was the 5 year old Chevy Sonic that I paid $9,500 for (2014 model purchased in October 2014 - once again I had GM credit card cash and ACDelco dollars to lower sale price) with 65,000 miles on it and I received $5750 for it in trade. The Sonic was the first of the three transactions mentioned above.

The Torrent was traded in on a certified preowned 2014 Cadillac ATS4 in October of 2016. Original sticker was $50,000 and it only had 12,000 miles on it. Bought the car for $28,000 less trade, plus tax title and license.

The Sonic was traded in on a 2019 Chevy Equinox Premier AWD in February 2019. Original sticker was $37,000. Got $7,000 off sticker, another $9,000 off with GM credit card cash and ACDelco dollars and then the $5,750 trade.

All three deals were done with very little negotiation. Vehicles were priced fairly to start with, vehicle trade allowances were very fair and I made it clear upfront that I was not interested in any extended warranties or dealer packs added in after the fact.

All 3 dealerships were in MN. Maybe MN just has more honest dealers????

[mgarblik]

I work with new car dealerships, their used car lots and many student/employees at their stores. I have found that the treatment of customers, employees and the vehicles themselves, varies tremendously from one dealer to another. There are some I work with who treat the technicians like the very valuable employees they are and offer great deals to them for new and used cars. Some even offer demonstrators to the top technicians just like the salespeople. Other dealers treat the employees like dirt, very disrespectful to my students, have them running all kinds of errands, keep them on the lube rack for over a year at sub-minimum wage. Rip them off on car sales, cheat customers. They get a real education. The old rule told to me 45 years ago, still rings true: "that's why tool boxes have wheels on them!" If you are being undervalued and treated poorly, get a job somewhere else. As a used car buyer, if the dealership is jacking you around and adding all kinds of crazy up charges for crap, walk out and buy the car somewhere else.

[dataway]

Very true, as a kid I worked at several different dealerships detailing cars. The whole tone of a dealership is determined by the owner and general manager. Comparing the dealerships I worked at that were owned by Italians, to the dealership that was owned by a guy out in farm country, totally difference experiences. Not saying one group or the other was bad in any way, just totally different ways of running a dealership.

[TAKerry]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

He probably has a wholesale only license which prevents him from selling to the public.

That would make sense.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Looked at a car yesterday, a 97 Lincolwn Towncar: low miles, show quality ORIGINAL paint except for small rust on lower driver fender, excellent interior, and boom rusted-out floorboards, frame, suspension, gas tank. The thing of nightmares. AC removed. UGH!

[gtohurstjudge]

Originally Posted by 66sprint6

Reminds me of the movie Fargo, the main character was a car salesman and allways pulling stuff like that.

I'm sorry sir, they put that TRU-COAT on at the factory.....there's nothing I can do!

[GoatRider]

I have only ever bought one "brand new" vehicle (1995 Dodge Avenger) and I think only 4 or 5 other vehicles from car dealers, preferring to buy from private individuals I guess; the latter method totaling 8 cars and trucks. (Yeah I am old.) Right now I have a 2014 Jaguar which is getting a little long in the tooth, and the wife and I are looking to trade it in (still have 12/60 payments left) on a more reliable sedan in the 2018-2020 range. I have been looking at the Toyota Avalon and BMW 5-series. Perhaps one of you that have purchased more cars from dealers can offer some advice:
Are the sales prices on sites like Car Gurus and Edmunds rated "great deals" or "good deals" to be trusted?
How much % lower than those might I set my "here is the deal I want or I am walking out" price?
Can I expect a dealer to offer me the KBB "trade in" value of the Jaguar if I take the advice per above and don't disclose I have a trade in until after the price of the new car is set?
Any help greatly appreciated.

[NeighborsComplaint]

All's well that ends well.

Waited for their call, answered the phone and said "How many cars did you sell today?" Silence at the other end. I said "I'm going to make your day, here's what it will take. Made a couple compromises but the deal went well.

Got another $900 for the trade, got them to waive the $995 upcharge for the Certified Pre-Own warranty, purchased a 7 year/100K bumper to bumper Nissan Warranty (no deductibles, no approvals required for repairs and no used replacement parts like the 3rd party warranties do) for $600 less than their original offer and had all fluids, filters (including the cabin filter) and wipers replaced. The car only had 20K Mi on it and the tires looked fine but I thought it rode like they there was slight imbalance in the fronts and they replaced both front tires also.

[DaleO]

Originally Posted by GoatRider

I have only ever bought one "brand new" vehicle (1995 Dodge Avenger) and I think only 4 or 5 other vehicles from car dealers, preferring to buy from private individuals I guess; the latter method totaling 8 cars and trucks. (Yeah I am old.) Right now I have a 2014 Jaguar which is getting a little long in the tooth, and the wife and I are looking to trade it in (still have 12/60 payments left) on a more reliable sedan in the 2018-2020 range. I have been looking at the Toyota Avalon and BMW 5-series. Perhaps one of you that have purchased more cars from dealers can offer some advice:
Are the sales prices on sites like Car Gurus and Edmunds rated "great deals" or "good deals" to be trusted?
How much % lower than those might I set my "here is the deal I want or I am walking out" price?
Can I expect a dealer to offer me the KBB "trade in" value of the Jaguar if I take the advice per above and don't disclose I have a trade in until after the price of the new car is set?
Any help greatly appreciated.

I, too, would appreciate help. Has any one talked a salesman to a price lower than the Carfax as value?

[Sirrotica]

Salesman don't reduce prices. To get money off a used car. You have to go to the used car manager. If you're going for a reduction in price, or negotiate a real deal, don't waste your time talking to salespeople, or you'll sit in their office all day waiting for them to take your deal to their manager, and then return with an answer. I always ask to talk to the used car manager from the getgo. When you talk to a salesperson they work on commission and when the price goes down, so does their paycheck.

Used car managers want to move cars, and at the last week of the month, moving more units is their motivation. If you can wait until the end of the month you'll usually have more leverage to get the deal you want. Not all dealers work their used car salespeople pay like this, but the majority do.

Just like anything else, when you understand the workings you can make the system work for you. if all else fails you might try talking to the owner, if he's not available, then the general manager of the store has lots more power to cut prices. I've worked at a bunch of dealerships over the years, going up the ladder of management, usually produces a better deal. You can always walk out the door, they hate to see a customer walk off the property.

[NeighborsComplaint]

As played.

[dataway]

Anyone actually taken their car to Car Max or one of those places that say they will write you a check on the spot for a given amount?

For our 2016 CRV 4wd, base model, 40K miles I wanted 12,500 for a trade, using the Car Max website they offered $15K .. with the couple of dents ... of course subject to review after seeing the car in person. Wonder what they would have actually offered in person.

I had to take into consideration that if I sold the car to a place like Car Max I would have to subtract about $1000 because then I would have to pay the sales tax on that cash when I bought the new car. Trading in the car means I would not have to pay sales tax on $12,500 of the purchase price. I figured it would be a wash by the time Car Max "reviewed the car in person"

[grandam1979]

I’m going to look at a used truck on a local dealer lot this morning I will let you guys know how it goes. I have been looking for a while now 15 year old 100,000+ mile trucks are selling for well over $10,000 still. I looked at a dodge 2005 1500 Daytona very clean 167,000 miles for $12,500 sold in a few days. Went to look at a 2005 ram last Sunday 149,000 miles good 10 footer but getting ready to pop rust everywhere sold as I pulled in lot for $10,000. I’m looking at a 2016 today for a lot more cash unfortunately.

[grandam1979]

Well no run around no magic fees went much better than I thought it would. Gave up looking for a older one like I wanted but did bring home a 2018 outdoorsman with 38,000 miles. It’s white so it looks like I work for the electric company now

[NeighborsComplaint]

Yeah the dealer knew he had the right car. Electric blue/black intererior blue contrasting stitching, 20k miles. You can find black white and gray ones all day long, but the blue was very difficult to find. Only 3 in blue listed for sale in the Chicago area and the othe 2 were higher mileage (40k+) and higher trim level for $3-5k higher asking price than the one we wound up buying. I paid $730 below the CarFax valuation.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by grandam1979

I’m going to look at a used truck on a local dealer lot this morning I will let you guys know how it goes. I have been looking for a while now 15 year old 100,000+ mile trucks are selling for well over $10,000 still. I looked at a dodge 2005 1500 Daytona very clean 167,000 miles for $12,500 sold in a few days. Went to look at a 2005 ram last Sunday 149,000 miles good 10 footer but getting ready to pop rust everywhere sold as I pulled in lot for $10,000. I’m looking at a 2016 today for a lot more cash unfortunately.

Sounds like your already well versed in the Dodge Truck rust issues. It flat amazes me how bad those trucks rust the outside body panels. My experience at my shop and friends trucks is good mechanicals, good, interior, general hardware, frames. Terrible front suspension and outer body panels. Bubbling rust in 2-3 years is very common. Rusted through in 3-4 years. Totally unacceptable with what we know about metal treatment today. A real shame. They are as bad as 1970's-1980's Japanese trucks.

[70oldgoat]

Originally Posted by GoatRider

I....Right now I have a 2014 Jaguar which is getting a little long in the tooth, and the wife and I are looking to trade it in (still have 12/60 payments left) on a more reliable sedan in the 2018-2020 range. I have been looking at the Toyota Avalon....

I have no vested interest in Toyota, but...

I have owned four Avalons in past 20 years.
Drove each 200,000 to 300,000 miles.
Needed routine maintenance only.
We currently drive a 2019 Avalon Limited and love it.
For me, a great car for the money.

[71GP76TA]

Originally Posted by dataway

Anyone actually taken their car to Car Max or one of those places that say they will write you a check on the spot for a given amount?

For our 2016 CRV 4wd, base model, 40K miles I wanted 12,500 for a trade, using the Car Max website they offered $15K .. with the couple of dents ... of course subject to review after seeing the car in person. Wonder what they would have actually offered in person.

I had to take into consideration that if I sold the car to a place like Car Max I would have to subtract about $1000 because then I would have to pay the sales tax on that cash when I bought the new car. Trading in the car means I would not have to pay sales tax on $12,500 of the purchase price. I figured it would be a wash by the time Car Max "reviewed the car in person"

A buddy bought a brand new 2015 ZL-1. He got a really good deal because it had been damaged and repaired but not turned into carfax etc.. He put about 2500ish very hard miles on it... He sold it to carmax 8-12 months later for $2000 more than he paid.

[jamesq]

Originally Posted by dataway

Anyone actually taken their car to Car Max or one of those places that say they will write you a check on the spot for a given amount?

For our 2016 CRV 4wd, base model, 40K miles I wanted 12,500 for a trade, using the Car Max website they offered $15K .. with the couple of dents ... of course subject to review after seeing the car in person. Wonder what they would have actually offered in person.

I had to take into consideration that if I sold the car to a place like Car Max I would have to subtract about $1000 because then I would have to pay the sales tax on that cash when I bought the new car. Trading in the car means I would not have to pay sales tax on $12,500 of the purchase price. I figured it would be a wash by the time Car Max "reviewed the car in person"

I have not gone to Carmax, but a little while back I was looking on KBB for a value on a truck I wanted to sell (2014 Ford). While researching pricing, KBB asked if I would like an "instant quote" to buy my truck. I thought "what the hey" and said yes. I got three offers within 30 minutes from new car dealers in my area that I thought were very fair. I called the dealership with the best offer and asked if the offer was real. They said if the truck was as described, they would cut me a check on the spot. It was and they did!

James Q

[vertigto]

Originally Posted by 70oldgoat

I have no vested interest in Toyota, but...

I have owned four Avalons in past 20 years.
Drove each 200,000 to 300,000 miles.
Needed routine maintenance only.
We currently drive a 2019 Avalon Limited and love it.
For me, a great car for the money.

I've enjoyed the past two Camry SEs I've owned. Nothing special, but a nice, inexpensive, reliable car.