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Old 04-08-2018, 04:11 PM
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Default Electric Fuel Pump Location

I have a 65 GTO that I have a manual fuel pump on, it is an Edelbrock Performer RPM Pump. My problem is that when the car sits for a while the gas evaporates and it takes a lot of cranking to get it to start. I already installed a check valve to keep the gas from draining back to the tank, but it hasn't completely help. So I am going to install a pusher electric pump back by the gas tank to use only for priming the line and filling the carburetor prior to starting. I am going to use the Carter P4602RV which comes with a bypass and check valve system so the manual pump doesn't have to pull through the electric pump when it is not running.

My question is where are people mounting these pumps? The only area I see where it would have enough room is on the trunk above the tank and in the axle tunnel. It would have to be offset to avoid interference with the rear pumpkin. Does anyone have a better place? It is recommended not to mount them higher than the gas tank but I really don't see anywhere else where it would work and be close to the hard gas line and clear the rear end and exhaust. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I found the mounting instructions on line and it can be mounted up to, but not higher than, 24" above the bottom of the tank.

Thanks,
Dale

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Last edited by highrisk; 04-08-2018 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 04-08-2018, 07:19 PM
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I have also found this pump https://www.summitracing.com/parts/atx-e8090/overview/ and was wondering if I could get away with just putting this one in without a bypass and let the mechanical pump suck through it when it is off? I know some pumps are designed different inside and don't create a problem letting fuel just pass through them. Again, I just need it to prime the carburetor when it has sat for a while and to act as a backup pump for emergencies.

Thanks,
Dale

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Old 04-08-2018, 08:23 PM
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I would more inclined to mount it on the rear cross member on the front face over top the axle toward the passenger side of the car. That way you could pull out of the tank, and then a straight shot into the fuel line without having to modify fuel line.

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Old 04-08-2018, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardo View Post
I would more inclined to mount it on the rear cross member on the front face over top the axle toward the passenger side of the car. That way you could pull out of the tank, and then a straight shot into the fuel line without having to modify fuel line.
Thanks, I will climb under it tomorrow and check that out.
Dale

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Old 04-09-2018, 08:56 AM
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I may end up having to do the same thing. I had the same problem when i had my 66 GTO with a Carter AFB. New car will be the same set up so..... I probably should be looking into that too. Good idea with the pass through as i would also only want the pump for refilling the carb after sitting. My body is still off the frame so this would definitely be the time to do it.

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Old 04-09-2018, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardo View Post
I may end up having to do the same thing. I had the same problem when i had my 66 GTO with a Carter AFB. New car will be the same set up so..... I probably should be looking into that too. Good idea with the pass through as i would also only want the pump for refilling the carb after sitting. My body is still off the frame so this would definitely be the time to do it.
If I didn't already have a new Edelbrock Mechanical Pump on the car I would have just installed an electric pump like I had on my 66. I had that one hooked up to an oil pressure switch so it would cut off the pump if the engine died. Then I also had it hooked to a momentary on switch so I could use it to prime the carburetor. Looking back I should have done that with this car. I will try this first and if it becomes a problem I might get rid of the mechanical pump, but I like the idea of having them both.
Dale

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Old 04-09-2018, 10:12 AM
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Default Fuel Issue

I have a Holley mounted to the tank strap for 30 + years with no issues, I can send you a picture and recently had the same problem on another 64 as you are experiencing so I added a fuel pump, well the issue was still there, had to dump gas in the carb, Took it off , rebuilt it and guess what starts with a few pumps of the pedal and I left the fuel pump there if I ever upgraded the motor it's ready. I installed a toggle switch under the dash in a factory hole, and if need be I can turn it on. If you need any pictures, just send me a email or # to text to. Hope this helps.

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Old 04-09-2018, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAGIMAN View Post
I have a Holley mounted to the tank strap for 30 + years with no issues, I can send you a picture and recently had the same problem on another 64 as you are experiencing so I added a fuel pump, well the issue was still there, had to dump gas in the carb, Took it off , rebuilt it and guess what starts with a few pumps of the pedal and I left the fuel pump there if I ever upgraded the motor it's ready. I installed a toggle switch under the dash in a factory hole, and if need be I can turn it on. If you need any pictures, just send me a email or # to text to. Hope this helps.
The carburetor was just recently rebuilt, but I guess it could be leaking down when it sits for a few days. I will have to see if the intake is wet after a few days next time I drive it. Pictures would be nice. I will send you my email on a private message.
Dale

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Old 04-09-2018, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardo View Post
I may end up having to do the same thing. I had the same problem when i had my 66 GTO with a Carter AFB. New car will be the same set up so..... I probably should be looking into that too. Good idea with the pass through as i would also only want the pump for refilling the carb after sitting. My body is still off the frame so this would definitely be the time to do it.
With the body off the frame and the Gas Tank "Installed" a few pics of the top of the frame and the room around the upper suspension would show clearances much better.

Is that Possible?

Tom V.

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Old 04-09-2018, 08:51 PM
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I'd love to help with that but i don't have my fuel tank yet and the car didn't come with one. I plan on picking my tank up at Norwalk so i don't have to pay to ship it.

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Old 04-09-2018, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardo View Post
I'd love to help with that but i don't have my fuel tank yet and the car didn't come with one. I plan on picking my tank up at Norwalk so i don't have to pay to ship it.
Stay with it and don't give up, it is well worth the end results. Mine took a little over 6 years to rebuild.
Dale
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Old 04-10-2018, 06:44 AM
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Thanks Dale, I will. I've got my frame done and re assembled except for the internals to the rear axle. Unfortunately, I've not been able to work on mine since September, due to working overtime and a side project 66 Lincoln Continental that i'm refreshing. I took that on to help pay for my project, and things at work exploded instead of slowing down as forecast. Lots of background going on for mine though. Block at machine shop. Block has been tanked, bored and align bored. I have all of my engine internals except for pistons and rings. Heads at SD Performance. Got trans built and sitting on work bench. Got paint, tires, wheels, all the soft interior, radiator is out for recore, brake booster out for rebuild and dash pad out at Just Dashes. Just got distributor back from being recurved. So while work has kept me from working on the car, it's definitely helped pay for it. It's looking like i won't get to do much this summer either, but i'm hoping to finish my portion of the body work and get it to the painter this fall or early winter. Your car came out phenomenal, and your efforts really show. The average person just doesn't realize how much goes into bringing one of these back. Hopefully, I'll see yours in person one day at a show somewhere.

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Old 04-10-2018, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardo View Post
Thanks Dale, I will. I've got my frame done and re assembled except for the internals to the rear axle. Unfortunately, I've not been able to work on mine since September, due to working overtime and a side project 66 Lincoln Continental that i'm refreshing. I took that on to help pay for my project, and things at work exploded instead of slowing down as forecast. Lots of background going on for mine though. Block at machine shop. Block has been tanked, bored and align bored. I have all of my engine internals except for pistons and rings. Heads at SD Performance. Got trans built and sitting on work bench. Got paint, tires, wheels, all the soft interior, radiator is out for recore, brake booster out for rebuild and dash pad out at Just Dashes. Just got distributor back from being recurved. So while work has kept me from working on the car, it's definitely helped pay for it. It's looking like i won't get to do much this summer either, but i'm hoping to finish my portion of the body work and get it to the painter this fall or early winter. Your car came out phenomenal, and your efforts really show. The average person just doesn't realize how much goes into bringing one of these back. Hopefully, I'll see yours in person one day at a show somewhere.
I completely know what you are going through. Mine would set for months while I waited on something to get done or I was giving the savings account a breather. After I did the frame and got it back under the car and got the engine and trans in the car I then sent it to the body shop where they took it back off of the frame. 3 1/2 years of my build was the car at the body shop waiting its turn and then the actual work. So 2 1/2 to 3 years of my over 6 year build was waiting on my turn for body work and paint. With the job these guys did it was well worth the wait, but VERY expensive. Makes me wish that I could do body work myself.
Dale

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Old 04-11-2018, 09:40 AM
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I have a Holley pump between the rear of the tank and rear most crossmember and its really tight. I chose that spot because I installed a sump in the bottom of my original tank. The closer you can get to the tank the better. And it's pretty noisy so that's another thing to consider.

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Old 04-11-2018, 09:58 AM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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Can you post up a picture of this pump? Everything I am seeing pretaining to an "Edelbrock Performer RPM Pump" comes up as a mechanical pump and there is only 1 way to mount those.

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Old 04-11-2018, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6567GTO View Post
I have a Holley pump between the rear of the tank and rear most crossmember and its really tight. I chose that spot because I installed a sump in the bottom of my original tank. The closer you can get to the tank the better. And it's pretty noisy so that's another thing to consider.
When I installed a pump on my 66 I put it on the trunk wall above the tank next to the tank sending unit but offset enough that it did not hit the pumpkin when the axle traveled up. It was within 1 foot of where the gas line came out and seemed to work well. You could here the pump running since this was my only pump and it ran continuously, but it was not too loud. On this car it will be just for priming and to act as a booster if necessary. These Carter Pumps take more space to install than the other pumps so I might just stick with what worked on the 66.
Thanks for the recommendation, I will check that area out and see if there is enough room. I have thought of putting it on the front of the crossmember that runs in front of the axle but that would be a long distance for the pump to pull fuel. The pump should be here today so I should be able to get under the car with it and see where it will actually fit.
Thanks,
Dale

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Old 04-11-2018, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's View Post
Can you post up a picture of this pump? Everything I am seeing pretaining to an "Edelbrock Performer RPM Pump" comes up as a mechanical pump and there is only 1 way to mount those.
The Edelbrock pump is a mechanical pump. I put it on the car when I first bought the car because the original style mechanical pump was leaking. So when I rebuilt the car I left it on the car since it is a really good pump and was new. Since then I am having problems starting the car when it has sat for a period of time because of the fuel evaporating. I first tried putting a check valve in the fuel line just before the mechanical pump where the line comes out of the frame thinking the fuel was draining back to the tank. That did not help so now I am going to install a pusher electric pump back by the tank to use to prime the line and fill the carburetor before starting the engine. The pump I decided to use is the Carter P4602RV which comes with a bypass and a check valve. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p4602rv
Sorry for any confusion about the Edelbrock pump.
Dale

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Old 04-11-2018, 10:39 AM
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Okay, now I got you. That Carter pump is a good pump and used by many with antique cars to combat vapor-lock. It will work for what you are after but it does not seem like "drain back" is your issue unless the car sits for months. If the car sits for months at a time then evaporation could be your problem but that would also come with carb problems as the fuel keeps drying, so do seals and gaskets. It would seem to me that your problem is more carb related than anything else. What fuel do you use? Pump gas? Ethanol free pump gas? Race fuel?

By the way, that style Carter pump can pretty much be mounted anywhere.

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Old 04-11-2018, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's View Post
Okay, now I got you. That Carter pump is a good pump and used by many with antique cars to combat vapor-lock. It will work for what you are after but it does not seem like "drain back" is your issue unless the car sits for months. If the car sits for months at a time then evaporation could be your problem but that would also come with carb problems as the fuel keeps drying, so do seals and gaskets. It would seem to me that your problem is more carb related than anything else. What fuel do you use? Pump gas? Ethanol free pump gas? Race fuel?

By the way, that style Carter pump can pretty much be mounted anywhere.
The carburetor was just rebuilt and everything is new. I just use 93 octane pump gas. I have looked for evidence of the carburetor leaking into the intake and don't see anything. If the car sits for a few days it starts just fine. If it sits for a few weeks then you have to crank it for numerous seconds before it starts. It actually takes a few attempts to finally get enough fuel to start the car. My 66 used to do the same thing, even after I replaced the mechanical pump with a Carter electric pump. It wasn't until I added a switch where I could turn on the pump before attempting to start the car to prime the lines that the problem stopped. That carburetor was a freshly rebuilt Holly and is doing the same thing as the Quadrajet is doing on this car. That is why I am thinking it is an evaporation issue and the electric pump should fix the problem.
Thanks for the help and advice,
Dale

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Old 04-11-2018, 01:53 PM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
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Did you ever look into the choke setting, both initial and pull-off? All my stock Pontiacs always started just fine even after sitting for a couple of months. It was only if they sat for a year or more that I either had to do the 'ol crank 'n pump or pour a shot glass of gas down the carb.

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