[Keith Seymore]

When I was on the 2002 Escalade program the Cadillac marketing guy would come in every week with notable sales.

"Jennifer Lopez got one this week" or "Martha Stewart got one".

The multiples were my favorite. I don't remember who specifically but there were a couple celebs that got two at a time.

My all time favorite though, was some Shah or Shiek in the Middle East: He got two in each of the available five colors for a total of ten - one for each of his wives.

One week he reported "BB King got his; a black one". I asked if Eric Clapton was going to drive him around in it. Everybody else was like "Seymore - WTF are you talking about?"


K

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Not the people that designed it.

I know, because I was one.

I worked in program engineering for the Escalade, the Denali, and the H2.

The whole rapper and celebrity thing took us all totally by surprise.

K

Thanks for that insight, I always love hearing from people "who were there" when things were being done. If you don't mind me asking, what was the "target market" for the 2002 Escalade? From the design team perspective?

[kingbuzzo]

Do you still get discounts on denali's...winter is coming lol

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

Chevy stifled Pontiac on every major project there was ever.
They worked very hard to keep Pontiac in line to not canabalize camaros and vettes that’s a pretty well known thing

Funny the racing ban came out after 63 anything spectacular happen in 63 that may have embarrassed the corvette , rubbed it face in the fact that Pontiac could destroy everyone and anyone????


Uh let me see
Maybe this?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aQbIwjBXQKA

That's all assumptions. Every time Pontiac did something great, it was because they were better than everyone else. When Pontiac faltered, it was Chevrolets fault. It's easy to say Pontiac would've mopped the floor with every other brand if they only were able to build/do certain things. But those things didn't happen. I could say they would have falled flat on their faces, and it has the same merit. Nobody knows for sure.

Let's face it. The company we like did some things right, and other things awful. Towards the end they were really messing up. Building junk nobody wanted except for the G8 and Solstice.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

Yeah you think they would have sent something cool down the line like a G8 at least.

G8 was built down under.

[jerry455]

I know a lot of people on this forum think Pontiac ended in 1981 but there were some cars being made that my wife and I really liked. She had a 1986 Pontiac 6000 STE, she really liked a lot. She had a 2008 Pontiac G6 V6 GT 4 door. She said after the Trailblazers we had in the 2002–2009-time frame, that was one of her favorite cars. I loved my 1986 Grand Prix and our 3 Fiero's. All of them would have been better with a real Pontiac V8 but they still had that "Pontiac" styling, handling and performance. I enjoyed driving them all. They definitely all had more style than their GM cousins.

[cruzn68]

^^^ That! I have owned 7 Pontiacs since 1981, including my DD 2010 G6. It's comfortable, gets decent fuel economy, and has been trouble free. It also makes me smile when I see that arrowhead on the steering wheel. The 2.4 Ecotec also makes 50 more HP than the '81 Grand Prix I had with the Pontiac V8

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Jonsie

When GM dumped Pontiac, I dumped GM. Haven't and never will purchase another GM vehicle

Nobody will, why?
When General Motors Corporation dumped Pontiac, they themselves Died too.
Today a different company exists..
General Motors "Company"

[Mr Anonymous]

I was a fan of the H-body FWD Bonnevilles with 3800.. A 95 and a 99. I liked the way it looked, I liked the way it drove, I liked the seating position and overall comfort. I HATED fixing the damn things. Sometimes the same thing more than once. And a plastic intake manifold? Leaky fuel lines. Running the coolant for the heater thru a plastic elbow and then alternator bracket. Who thinks up this s**t? "lets build an almost good car, then make them hate it over time."

We also kept around an S-series 4wd of one kind or another. Had three of them. . Once I got a Pilot for the Mrs and I ended up with a cvic, I'm spending less of my life fixing my daily drivers, and more time on the fun cars. Loved the blazer too, but just... damn. The Jimmy was aptly named, I think it was the construction method.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

That's all assumptions. Every time Pontiac did something great, it was because they were better than everyone else. When Pontiac faltered, it was Chevrolets fault. It's easy to say Pontiac would've mopped the floor with every other brand if they only were able to build/do certain things. But those things didn't happen. I could say they would have falled flat on their faces, and it has the same merit. Nobody knows for sure.

Let's face it. The company we like did some things right, and other things awful. Towards the end they were really messing up. Building junk nobody wanted except for the G8 and Solstice.

I mostly agree with your post, especially the last few sentences. As Pontiac fans/enthusiasts sure we cheerlead for the brand. But to say Chevrolet had little to no bearing on the success or failure of our favorite brand is a little naive. From 1962-1969, Chevrolet was getting beat-up by Pontiac on a regular basis. Pontiac was the darling of the car magazines. Pontiac was winning prestigious awards like the Motor Trend Car of the Year for THE ENTIRE PONTIAC LINE. The 64 GTO smuggled into production while Chevrolet was serving bland on white bread, had to piss them off royally. When John Delorean put the extra final quality inspections in place at the end of the assembly line, that had to be infuriating for the garbage division, Chevrolet. Finally, upper management had no other choice than to "promote John Deleoran" to Chevrolet and put him in charge of the Vega. That's one way to slow Pontiac down. Pontiac was stealing sales and accolades right and left from Chevrolet and they didn't like it. Pontiac built superior cars to Chevrolet for decades with one hand tied behind their back. When the Division was stripped of all it's autonomy in the 1980's, then the entire corporation just built generic junk from that point forward with a few exceptions here and there. The Corvette, to Chevrolet's credit, was always allowed to operate as a completely separate brand for the most part. It was highly prized and protected as evidence of Chevrolet being able to kill off the Pontiac Banshee multiple times when production drew close.

A die hard Chevrolet fan probably has a different view of this history, but my comments are based on a 40+ year study of the Pontiac brand from every resource I could find and personal interviews and interaction with people who were there to live through it. I love the fact that Pontiac was a giant overachiever and constant underdog. A great heritage that deserved a proper burial. Last Pontiac: a 4-cyl G6 Rental car. Damn shame.

[Keith Seymore]

In other news:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-la...&ICID=ref_fark

[kingbuzzo]

buy it back and put a poncho in it...lol

[242177P]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

But to say Chevrolet had little to no bearing on the success or failure of our favorite brand is a little naive.

Pontiac did quite well in their NASCAR days. No more racing. Chevrolet didn't have an answer for the GTO until 1965, when they rolled out 201 specially built Chevelles. Corvette got it's 3x2 after corporate killed Tripower. No big block Camaros (they had the "big" 350) until the Firebird 400. While Pontiac was selling SD455s, Chevy dropped the Z28 - didn't bring it back until 77. 3rd gen Firehawk. 89 Turbo TransAm. Pontiac's work with SLP on 4th gens didn't go unnoticed, Chevy pulled a mE ToO and revived it's Camaro SS. GTO and G8, Chevy actually poached the Holden deal.

Five decades of being forced to respond.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Thanks for that insight, I always love hearing from people "who were there" when things were being done. If you don't mind me asking, what was the "target market" for the 2002 Escalade? From the design team perspective?

Normal rich people (like small business owners).

They usually have a story board posted in the Studio which shows the colors available, content, and demographics of the expected customers: how much they make, what kind of clothes they wear, what kind of watch they have, other vehicles they own, if they smoke cigars vs pipes, etc.

I've shared this before in terms of the marketing magic applied to color names (you know, "Hugger orange" on a Chevy is the same as "Carousel Red" on a Pontiac).

I was talking to somebody about that in the context of GM trucks and made up the following example:

"Black" = Chevy
"Tuxedo Black" = GMC
"Black Diamond" = Cadillac

Of course I was being totally facetious.

Nonetheless, some time after that I was over in the Cadillac studio. They were doing some new sedan and had a storyboard up with the usual information.

Sure enough - one of the signature colors they had created was named "Black Diamond".

[burd]

I still buy GM, hrysler is still rusty garbage, and the Ford trucks with that 18 wheeler swoopy door is ugly as hell, and it’s there forever like Ford does. I have a Nissan, (Infiniti), love that car. Only GM vehicles, no, but still buy em. Get over it, Pontiac is gone.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Pontiac did quite well in their NASCAR days. No more racing. Chevrolet didn't have an answer for the GTO until 1965, when they rolled out 201 specially built Chevelles. Corvette got it's 3x2 after corporate killed Tripower. No big block Camaros (they had the "big" 350) until the Firebird 400. While Pontiac was selling SD455s, Chevy dropped the Z28 - didn't bring it back until 77. 3rd gen Firehawk. 89 Turbo TransAm. Pontiac's work with SLP on 4th gens didn't go unnoticed, Chevy pulled a mE ToO and revived it's Camaro SS. GTO and G8, Chevy actually poached the Holden deal.

Five decades of being forced to respond.

The Camaro and Firebird debuted the same year. I had a 67 factory 396 4 Speed. I would hardly say Chevy was forced to respond to the 400 Firebird.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

The Camaro and Firebird debuted the same year. I had a 67 factory 396 4 Speed. I would hardly say Chevy was forced to respond to the 400 Firebird.

Got a build date?

Camaros went on sale September 29, 1966.
Firebirds went on sale February 23, 1967.

Five whole months. Five. It's no coincidence the 396 finally appeared when it did.

[jerry455]

Every GTO I had was faster than my Chevelle with a 396. It was a turd but I fell into the hype from all of my friends about how superior a big block Chevy was to a Pontiac. To me, it always seemed that Pontiac was a step ahead of Chevrolet. The cars looked cooler, handled better and felt more powerful.

[mgarblik]

On a Pontiac forum, The Pontiacs are always superior. No argument from me. I will say senior year in HS, I had my 70 TA and a good friend had a 70 Z28. We street raced those cars almost every day for a year. TA was a 4-speed, Z28 was an auto trans. Who ever got the jump and some traction would win the race. They were virtually identical as drag racers. Of course I much preferred my Pontiac, but the Z28 was no slouch. It would shift in drive from gear to gear between 6800-7000 RPM. Lots of RPM, not much torque, and a cheap interior. All the things Chevy was famous for.

[fiedlerh]

Anybody going to go to Mexico to look for 1G2ZA5EB5A4166962?
I've seen worse cars revived.