[weranc55]

Originally Posted by Ziggysdad

I am not going to beat this horse to death, but you just said it not me If you have two comparable cars, what is the difference? Stickers and a wing. I will not argue the rarity issue of a IV vs a III as not adding value, but how much? I personally would pay 20-25K more for a Ram Air IV than a Ram AirIII all things being equal. If I can't do that than I guess I won't get one. My Judge is great and has a certain rarity. I am more than happy to keep it.

Where not trying to be difficult but most of the guys on this forum know Pontiacs real well. I would be willing to trade a ra3 judge for a ra4 judge also for 20 to 25k if I had one. I think a lot of people would do that. I think what most guys are saying is that a ra4 Judge is worth much more than a ra3 car. Twice as much at least. Now if JL's prediction comes true you may be able to spend 25k and your car and get a ra4 Judge in a year. Here are a few examples.

69 ra3 gto X 2 might get you a ra4 gto.
Ra3 Judge X 2 gets you a Ra4 Judge maybe.
69 ta Ra3 x2 to x2.5 gets you a ra4ta maybe.
70 ra3ta X 2.5 to 3 gets you a ra4.
73 ta X 3 gets you a 73sd

Big difference in price from a D port car to a round port car.

[Ziggysdad]

Originally Posted by weranc55

Where not trying to be difficult but most of the guys on this forum know Pontiacs real well. I would be willing to trade a ra3 judge for a ra4 judge also for 20 to 25k if I had one. I think a lot of people would do that. I think what most guys are saying is that a ra4 Judge is worth much more than a ra3 car. Twice as much at least. Now if JL's prediction comes true you may be able to spend 25k and your car and get a ra4 Judge in a year. Here are a few examples.

69 ra3 gto X 2 might get you a ra4 gto.
Ra3 Judge X 2 gets you a Ra4 Judge maybe.
69 ta Ra3 x2 to x2.5 gets you a ra4ta maybe.
70 ra3ta X 2.5 to 3 gets you a ra4.
73 ta X 3 gets you a 73sd

Big difference in price from a D port car to a round port car.

Guys, I really appreciate all your opinions and expertise, but if I truly have to pay double for a RAIV, than I don't want one that badly. I could do it but I won;t.

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by Judge273

What's a TA over a similar Formula if you don't know the answer??

To be honest, I am not sure. How does a 73 SD TA compare valuewise to a 73 SD formy. I personally would take the formy, especially if it is cheaper. RAIII and HOs, the TA has a premium but I don't think it is as great as the market gives to a Judge vs non-Judge.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is more in line with Chuck. I think the RAIV over the RAIII should add more value than a Judge vs non-Judge RAIII, all else equal. If Ziggy has a lead on a RAIV Judge for 100K or a RAIV non-Judge for "substantially less", it seems then that there is a "substantial" value being applied for the Judge option here (which is just the stickers and wing at this point). To me the real upgrade is the RAIV performance and rarity whether or not it is a Judge. Don't get me wrong, I like Judges, I just value the RAIV more.

I am not going to beat this horse any more. Zig has a beautiful Judge already so he is in a win-win situation. I especially like his car because it is different (color) than most of the ones you see.

[gregsgtos2]

Heres how I see it-plain and clear-I dont need a Chevy guy to tell me what a Pontiac is worth. How many more build sheets do you want for your LS6 Chevelle? Theres a guy in Ohio making them. We have PHS-we dont need anything else. I know a guy around here that buys every Malibu he can find-they leave 70 Chevelle SS cars. Sells everyone he builds for big money. Maybe he has build sheets too?

[richard sargent]

QUOTE]I am very happy for you, but anyone that would pay that for a 1969 Ram Air IV GTO HT is nuts[/QUOTE]

Really! What about a the first IV Judge dealer sponsored drag car, CR, IV, 4.33, 4 gear, radio delete, no options except, hood tach and gauges, original engine, original interior looks like it would have in 1971 not a single thing needs to replaced, original paint, entire life high desert, been in dry storage since 77? Here's a few pics. Survivor car, be at the nationals in Portland Ore. come tell me what a "Pontiac is worth" I'll be there with another CR IV Judge, 4 SP, Tilt, Wood wheel, Pwr Disk, Pwr steering, AM FM, 8 track, Hood Tach, Gauges, Hideaways if not the first you tell "educate me'' on the second one.

[richard sargent]

Oh and something Chevy guys can only dream about! Check out the ET on the window vintage 1969, a few more picts

[Ziggysdad]

Originally Posted by gregsgtos2

Heres how I see it-plain and clear-I dont need a Chevy guy to tell me what a Pontiac is worth. How many more build sheets do you want for your LS6 Chevelle? Theres a guy in Ohio making them. We have PHS-we dont need anything else. I know a guy around here that buys every Malibu he can find-they leave 70 Chevelle SS cars. Sells everyone he builds for big money. Maybe he has build sheets too?

I may have asked many questions but I have not personally abused anyone or acted like an A$$. I don't have to explain my LS6 to anyone. It is as real as it gets including the paperwork. I won't bother you anymore with stupid questions. For those of you that have posted and PM'd me, thank you. Greg, let me know when you sell your triple black convertible for 250K.

[Ziggysdad]

Originally Posted by 68bird400HO

To be honest, I am not sure. How does a 73 SD TA compare valuewise to a 73 SD formy. I personally would take the formy, especially if it is cheaper. RAIII and HOs, the TA has a premium but I don't think it is as great as the market gives to a Judge vs non-Judge.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is more in line with Chuck. I think the RAIV over the RAIII should add more value than a Judge vs non-Judge RAIII, all else equal. If Ziggy has a lead on a RAIV Judge for 100K or a RAIV non-Judge for "substantially less", it seems then that there is a "substantial" value being applied for the Judge option here (which is just the stickers and wing at this point). To me the real upgrade is the RAIV performance and rarity whether or not it is a Judge. Don't get me wrong, I like Judges, I just value the RAIV more.

I am not going to beat this horse any more. Zig has a beautiful Judge already so he is in a win-win situation. I especially like his car because it is different (color) than most of the ones you see.

Thank you for your adult comments and opinion and the compliment on my car.

[Judge273]

I get what you guys are saying too. It is all personal taste, desire, and cost.

I know I had the same thought about Judges too. But, owning a PHS roundport Judge that has its matching engine is like owning a piece of an that ERA.

Wild styling and gofast from the showroom floor to street/track is what drove some people to buy them and care for them...

If you like the almost a Judge or sleeper, than that was available too for less money.

[gregsgtos2]

$250k or best offer-lets at least get that part right. PHS DOCUMENTED- no home made build sheets here! I was being more than helpful all along-until you started talking stupid. So then I started talking stupid too! No hard feelings on my part-if you see me in Indy-stop by and say Hi. Back to the search. You never know-with 5 black 70s going to be at the auction-you may bring one of those cars back home. I believe 3 of them are RAIV cars. 2 auto-1 4speed With the last 2 black 69 judge converts bringing 220k and 225k-I dont think I am too far off. Reserve is set at $225k at the auction-right in line with the others. Have a good weekend. Richard-gotta love those 69s!!!

[weranc55]

Originally Posted by Ziggysdad

Guys, I really appreciate all your opinions and expertise, but if I truly have to pay double for a RAIV, than I don't want one that badly. I could do it but I won;t.

Sounds good, good luck with your car. I really like the color on your Judge.

[Ziggysdad]

Originally Posted by weranc55

Sounds good, good luck with your car. I really like the color on your Judge.

Thank You.

[JLHarper]

There is a 70 RAIV PHS docs, Atoll Blue, black interior, 4 speed ,3:90, 53K original miles, motor rebuilt, for sale in this months "The Legend" magazine (GTOAA mag)

Says...1st $65,000

There is a picture too.

[gregsgtos2]

Found a 69 RAIV Judge for sale-done car-SR BLOCK-4 speed

[JLHarper]

Originally Posted by gregsgtos2

Found a 69 RAIV Judge for sale-done car-SR BLOCK-4 speed

Nice..... a good price?

Anyone see Alan Jacksons 70 RAIV GTO at BJ? Sold for $50,000.

[69judgera3]

I know of a 69 raiv liberty blue judge

[70Steve]

Originally Posted by JLHarper

There is a 70 RAIV PHS docs, Atoll Blue, black interior, 4 speed ,3:90, 53K original miles, motor rebuilt, for sale in this months "The Legend" magazine (GTOAA mag)

Says...1st $65,000

There is a picture too.

It's now first 50k. Looks nice in the pic!

[gregsgtos2]

Got a phone number?

[geogolfx]

http://kalispell.craigslist.org/cto/2337762177.html

No idea who's it is. But is listed as RAIV

[Ram4king]

Drivetrain is completely gone from that car.