[t money]

Bill i disagree with some of that statement alot of racers are running the rpm e head with just a clean up the bowls and ports. this is with no disrespect to anybody that makes a living porting heads but edelbrock does not care about pontiac if they did we would have a head completed for the masses not a block of aluminum for 2,500 dollars. it is about marketing to the masses on price point I have a qestion for any one that can answer it how can i get a complete edelbrock head for a olds for $820 and the new D port for $1200 what makes a pontiac head more money then a olds

[GTO]

Originally Posted by cfmcnc

Good heads dont come from Summit.Bill C.

You're probably right. But they would be a good starting point. ... Eric.

[slowbird]

I would be very surprised if these heads don't make really good power. Ya they might cost a little more but bet they make more power as well. You have to pay to play. If you want cheap and easy stick with the RPM or the HP head.

[t money]

Slowbird my problem is they can make this head complete flowing 350 plus for the masses and others can take it to next level with porting.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by slowbird

I would be very surprised if these heads don't make really good power. Ya they might cost a little more but bet they make more power as well. You have to pay to play. If you want cheap and easy stick with the RPM or the HP head.

Nothing is cheap and easy for a Pontiac guy! LOL! Chebys are cheap and easy. My short block cost more than my buddies complete long block 540. ... Eric

[cfmcnc]

The Pontiac Pro-port is a good idea but was mfg too small,It should have been a 400cfm head as cast with room all around the port crossection to go 450+,The Edelbrock small block Chev 15 degree pro-port jobber price is 1380$ per pair,however the Pontiac Pro-port is 2500$ .Bill C.

[cfmcnc]

Originally Posted by cgeise

As some one can get most anything thru the catalog houses now days Id say that comment is suspect at best - and self serving

I bet Jason Line and Greg Andersons engines have little or no parts from catalogue.Bill C.

[slowbird]

Would people spend the money if the heads flow 490cfm?

[cfmcnc]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Would people spend the money if the heads flow 490cfm?

We have Tiger develpoment heads close to that,welding and stuff moved around .Bill C.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by cfmcnc

We have Tiger develpoment heads close to that,welding and stuff moved around .Bill C.

Ya, I know there are Tiger heads flowing that but you have to move thing around a lot which adds big bucks. If the 11° proport will do it without moving things around then it would be the cheaper option, IMO

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Would people spend the money if the heads flow 490cfm?

Yep, tell me who to right the check too?

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Yep, tell me who to right the check too?

Not saying they can but no one knows that they can't yet either.

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by cfmcnc

We have Tiger develpoment heads close to that,welding and stuff moved around .Bill C.

And it has taken 5 or 6 years and someone like BES to lead you there.

[cfmcnc]

Originally Posted by cgeise;

And it has taken 5 or 6 years and someone like BES to lead you there.

Just proves how little you actually know! BES has NEVER shared information with us about the development of the Tiger , nor have we ever seen Scott or John's heads. Seems as I remember though , another shop being involved in Scott's Tiger development originally...a VERY well respected name! But , never the less , they run their own program...we run ours...that simple. There are many other talented people in this business besides the 2 or 3 you read about on the internet all the time. And just think...if we had collaberated on development...we'd have a market of about 4 or 5 people for this type of head...total...between the two of us. That's why it was parked...some years ago I might add. Carry on, Johnny

[BruceWilkie]

In a way these are a "wish sandwich". A raw casting for your choice of porter to use to make the head what you wish it to be. Other than casting source it wont be an Edelbrock head it will be whoever does the port work's head. It wont be constrained by multiple production cost concerns/compromises. Results for a specific application should be the only thing its judged by, not numbers.

Like most I am curious to find out what they may be capable of. Curious to see not what only can be flowed into them but what can flow out of them as well.

Only concern I see is the spark plug hole location shown in the chamber pics on the first page. Unless I'm seeing it wrong, it appears way too close to the exhaust valve and seat which could become a serious source of very destructive preignition events. Its not a cool place for the spark plug! Pun intended. Hows that plug going to get cool enough? Looks like it could become a glow plug where its placed.
This link for info on difference between detonation/preignition http://contactmagazine.com/Issue54/EngineBasics.html
Preignition will kill a motor near instantly, it will live longer in detonation and near impossible to react to preignition. Damage done then you hear/feel the result. I have first hand knowledge of results of preignition. (in my instances was a fan cooled motor where I raised power beyond capacity of the head cooling capability.)

[slowbird]

Anyone know who makes shaft rockers for the heads? Wondering what kind of offset and rocker ratios are available for these heads.

[potentpontiac]

Butler is working with Jesel on rocker shafts. Not sure of final ratio however. 1.75 1.80 is what I have heard. Plus they are currently doing R@D on a set of 11 degree heads. Should have some results in a week or two.

[potentpontiac]

Correction on the rocker shaft deal. T@D are working with Butlers on the shaft set up. Very good point Bruce regarding possible spark plug issues.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Only concern I see is the spark plug hole location shown in the chamber pics on the first page. Unless I'm seeing it wrong, it appears way too close to the exhaust valve and seat which could become a serious source of very destructive preignition events. Its not a cool place for the spark plug!

Ford Tunnel Port Heads cracked in that area from being a SOLID cast iron head.

Aluminum heads might be a bit safer. If someone had a "partial head" I would be cutting around that spark plug to see how much water was there. Minimum water passage size around the spark plug, on an aluminum head designed today is 3mm (around .125" for people not used to the metric system).

I would find out that answer VERY QUICKLY

Tom Vaught

ps ASSuME that Edelbrock Engineers have the knowledge to follow that general rule.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Ford Tunnel Port Heads cracked in that area from being a SOLID cast iron head.

Aluminum heads might be a bit safer. If someone had a "partial head" I would be cutting around that spark plug to see how much water was there. Minimum water passage size around the spark plug, on an aluminum head designed today is 3mm (around .125" for people not used to the metric system).

I would find out that answer VERY QUICKLY

Tom Vaught

ps ASSuME that Edelbrock Engineers have the knowledge to follow that general rule.

I think I'd be concerned about insufficient tip cooling from the intake charge as well. Granted you dont need fuel pouring into the plug gap but a little more exposure to the cooler intake flow with the tip biased a tid to the exhaust to minimze fouling yet plug residing closer to the cooler charge seems a bit safer.