#21  
Old 05-21-2016, 07:08 PM
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No idea...but it's a cheap motor, and they'll let you compare the motors at the parts store. Keep in mind, I think the updated cage is what makes a lot of the difference.

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  #22  
Old 05-23-2016, 09:03 PM
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The 2002 Dodge Ram blower at Auto Zone,VDO PM9198, is $85. It runs counterclockwise and has 41 or so blades. My 65GTO with air uses a 31 blade impeller and runs clockwise.The OD of the impeller is 5 5/8" and Depth is 3 1/2". The VDO PM136, $25 for the Astro Van runs clockwise and has 29 blades. I am going to have a look at it. The 1995 Dodge Ram blower does run clockwise. It is an Everco 75888 at $70. It has 29 blades.


Last edited by aceaceca; 05-23-2016 at 09:23 PM. Reason: more info
  #23  
Old 05-24-2016, 12:16 AM
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I think you may find that the cages on the Dodge motors will be too deep. Check out the 136. It's a direct bolt in on my '70.

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Old 06-17-2016, 09:55 PM
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I just found this thread and read it with great interest. In fact, I just made a run to the parts store and picked up a PM 136 to try in my 67 GTO. I won't install it until tomorrow but, since I have the fender liner out, it isn't a real hard job. One thing I did notice is the vent hole on the new motor appears to be smaller than the one on the 67. If it is that may present a problem hooking the rubber hose up to it.

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Old 06-17-2016, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by fyrffytr1 View Post
I just found this thread and read it with great interest. In fact, I just made a run to the parts store and picked up a PM 136 to try in my 67 GTO. I won't install it until tomorrow but, since I have the fender liner out, it isn't a real hard job. One thing I did notice is the vent hole on the new motor appears to be smaller than the one on the 67. If it is that may present a problem hooking the rubber hose up to it.
Got a 67 too....let us know how you make out !

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Old 06-17-2016, 10:25 PM
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Got a 67 too....let us know how you make out !
Will do. Hopefully I will get to it tomorrow.

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  #27  
Old 06-18-2016, 09:54 PM
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I decided not to use the PM 136 in my 67 GTO for a few reasons. First, the blower wheel on the 136 is over an inch shorter than the 102 that came in the car. Second, the blower wheel is plastic and has a press fit on the shaft. The 102 is metal and is secured to the shaft by a flat spot on the shaft and a flat on the wheel hub that keeps the wheel from spinning on the shaft. Third, the vent hole in the 136 is smaller and the cooling hose won't fit it.
But, the main reason is that it doesn't move the air any better than the original, probably because of the shorter wheel causing turbulence in the housing.
One thing I did do was add a ground wire from the motor housing to the firewall. I read in another thread that this helped.
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  #28  
Old 06-24-2016, 01:20 PM
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Great input. I also retained my original blower/new motor on my 1965 AC car. I did not get the 136 blower because I determined air flow is primarily influenced by the diameter of the wheel and the number of vanes it has. I am interested to know if you pulled the inner fender well with the fender on. I wanted access to my evaporator for cleaning but did not want to remove the body work. The bumper had to come off to access some fender well bolts. I improvised methods to flush and clean the evaporator. Going together now.

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Old 06-24-2016, 10:40 PM
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Great input. I also retained my original blower/new motor on my 1965 AC car. I did not get the 136 blower because I determined air flow is primarily influenced by the diameter of the wheel and the number of vanes it has. I am interested to know if you pulled the inner fender well with the fender on. I wanted access to my evaporator for cleaning but did not want to remove the body work. The bumper had to come off to access some fender well bolts. I improvised methods to flush and clean the evaporator. Going together now.
Yes I did manage to get the inner fender out without removing the outer fender. But, it didn't just fall out when I unbolted it. I did take the two lower fender bolts behind the wheel out so I could lightly pry the fender to allow the inner fender to disengage from the outer. I had to pry all the way around the wheel well using two flat bars until the inner fender popped loose. Make sure the car is jacked up high to give the inner fender room to rotate down and out.
It took some effort and I almost called a friend to do some cussing for me but it finally came out.
Then, I had to pry out on the fender to get the inner back in. If I had a spare liner I would cut an access panel in it for future repairs.
That, and changing the number 2 plug on an A/C car are probably the most aggravating jobs to do!

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  #30  
Old 06-25-2016, 06:54 AM
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OR...
Go with a bigger amp alternator.
I swapped the stock one for a 100 amp alternator on my 69 GTO and now the fan blows harder!

  #31  
Old 06-25-2016, 12:47 PM
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When the blower switch is put on max, the juice for the blower comes right off the charge output wire on the back of the alternator. The blower will get good input voltage, esp. from the high amp alternator. I used to have trouble with the blower fuse, which is right there, either blowing or frying. After a new blower motor and new fuse holder and the correct 30 amp fuse it works well. I also now run a 100amp alternator. I get belt squeal regularly from the increased load on the belt. I am going to go to a better, deep groove pulley and see if that helps.

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Old 06-25-2016, 01:26 PM
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Fyrffytr1, I know the agony of trying to get down under the dash. I need a day in bed after the ordeal. We are chasing the same rainbow on our AC's. My 65 is an original family owned car. The AC renovation I am currently doing is one of the last systems on the car that I have not done. This time, I had both inner and outer plenum boxes off the car. I replaced the two inner vacuum motors on the inside. One opens the defrost door and the other one controls two doors in tandem. It swings a door to divert the incoming air from the evaporator so it does not go to the heater core and at the same time opens the door to direct air to the AC outlets via a secondary plenum box that attaches to the front of the heater/AC plenum. The two doors are connected via a long rod on the top of the heater plenum box. The outer vacuum motor is on the blower plenum under the hood. It has 2 line connections. Both are easy to break off while rummaging under the hood. To replace it, you have to take the blower plenum box off. There are 5 studs with 1/4" nuts securing the under hood plenum to the firewall as well as 4 sheet metal bolts along the top. Two of the stud nuts are difficult to access. One upper one on the outer passenger side is right by the hood hinge. It can be accessed with the plastic duct that connects the blower output to the evaporator removed or in a pinch via a wrench down the small access space. The lower stud below this one is accessed via a hole in the fender well. I am not sure if the hole was there from the factory or if I made it myself at some time.

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Old 06-25-2016, 01:39 PM
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I do not remember air flow and volume being a problem when the car was new. We lived in Houston so I am sure the AC functioned well. The comments on the forum all say to be sure and get all ductwork sealed well. I have tried to accomplish this with this renovation. I opted for 3/16 closed cell neoprene tape to join the 2 halves of the heater plenum box. I used 1/2" closed cell neoprene tape on both the inner plenum to firewall seal and on the under hood blower plenum to firewall seal. I then siliconed the loose plastic seal on the secondary under dash plenum that directs cold AC air to the outlets. Per Andre's recommendation, I closed off the 2 under dash outlets as bing useless. I just duct taped them closed.

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Old 06-25-2016, 01:51 PM
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My major air escaping points were the little split duct connecting the blower to the duct leading to the evaporator and of course the seal from the inside heater/AC plenum box to the evaporator. The original seal is not remanufactured to my knowledge. It was a large lump of goo when I first removed it. It was supposed to be a formed gasket. I improvised a solution with round insulation tape and silicone on the evaporator side and the trusty closed cell neoprene tape on the other. This is the connection where a non AC car has the passenger vent, but on an AC car, the evaporator sits on the back side and the heater/AC plenum slides into a semi oval c clamp that requires closed cell neoprene on it to seal.

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Old 06-25-2016, 02:17 PM
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Lastly, the odds that the back side of the evaporator fins and box are fouled by leaves and dirt. Fifty years of stuff getting in there from the from the outside air entry point which is under the windshield wiper grate at the base of the windshield. This door opens when the controls are placed on outside air. I wanted to take the inner fender well out to get at the back side of the evaporator but opted not to. I used a bore camera to have a look at the leaves and pine needles that were in there. I used a number of methods to get this done. I added a 3/4 piece of heater hose to the shop vac to get it down in there. I stuck the hose in there and let her fly. I modified a sink plunger and used it to confine the spray while I blasted the evaporator from inside the car. I am relatively sure I have at least improved the situation down there. Lastly, I purchased an air flow meter from Amazon. When I am done, I will report actual air flow numbers so others can get a better idea of the shape of their system.

  #36  
Old 06-25-2016, 03:42 PM
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When I had my car apart I made sure the evaporator was clean and the plenums were as well. If there is any trash in there now it has to be a very small amount because I don't park under trees when the car is out and when it is home it's in the shop.

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  #37  
Old 06-26-2016, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 71 T/A View Post
OR...
Go with a bigger amp alternator.
I swapped the stock one for a 100 amp alternator on my 69 GTO and now the fan blows harder!

Good point...I upgraded to the 12SI that puts out 94 amps I think it is...it's the 84 Z-28 alternator. I'm sure my fan is getting full juice. My original cage fan was also bent off axis. The new plastic cage on the 136 also had longer, more curved fins when compared to the steel cage.

I just did Power Tour and the AC would nearly run you out of the car..42 deg at the center vent.

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  #38  
Old 06-26-2016, 09:44 PM
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It's best if the additional ground wire goes directly from motor to the engine. The complete current path has to be considered and the ground path is as important as the positive voltage feed to the motor. It might not make much a difference, but any gains will give a few more RPM to the motor. The bolts holding the A/C box in place suffer from 45+ years of accumulated corrosion between bolt and body. Then the remainder of the return path has to go from the body back to the engine which introduces additional resistance at each connection. A good solid 10ga wire from the motor case to the cylinder head works best.

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  #39  
Old 06-26-2016, 10:37 PM
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It's best if the additional ground wire goes directly from motor to the engine. The complete current path has to be considered and the ground path is as important as the positive voltage feed to the motor. It might not make much a difference, but any gains will give a few more RPM to the motor. The bolts holding the A/C box in place suffer from 45+ years of accumulated corrosion between bolt and body. Then the remainder of the return path has to go from the body back to the engine which introduces additional resistance at each connection. A good solid 10ga wire from the motor case to the cylinder head works best.
I am not about to drop the fender liner again to change the ground wire out. I guess I could try to access one of the front screws and run a ground from it to the head. As far as the A/C box bolt, it was cleaned up when I did the restoration so there is only about 7 years worth of accumulation. Since the car is garage parked and never driven in bad weather I would venture to say that I have a decent ground. Considering the fact that there was no ground to begin with I think any ground would be a benefit. Thanks for the informative reply and I will try to remember it should I ever have need to take the car apart again.

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  #40  
Old 06-27-2016, 02:31 AM
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I think it was George K. that said "you can never have too many grounds". Another wire added to the existing ground will work as good as replacing the current wire path.

Sometimes I think our limited air flow is more a function of the design of the system in our A-bodies. I've got several big '65 Pontiac's and with loose screws, noisy fan motor, and just general disrepair - they push a lot more air out of the vents, and they all have the same motor and squirrel cage as we have. I've also pulled motor/fan combinations off Cadillac's and Buick's that really put out the air, and then didn't get any improvement when transplanted to the A-body. My GTO A/C system works satisfactorily, but I am always looking for something that will provide killer air flow coming out of the vents. So I keep reading and hoping someone finds the holy grail.

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