#41  
Old 01-11-2023, 05:26 PM
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Dan's rebuilding a 7029268 Q-jet for the 350HO, the picture is a teaser with another Q-jet to make sure the fuel line (old original from a past rebuild) fits. Dan found an old original thermo-vacuum switch with the plug and hoses (5 fittings) to add to the intake as well as the proper pcv nipple and coolant temp sensor for the idiot light. He needs to rebuild the carb yet, so could be running by Friday! We also see through the fuel pump opening in the timing chain cover that the cam gear is a steel replacement, so scratch that off the list.

Dennis
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  #42  
Old 01-11-2023, 05:32 PM
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Does anyone know if this is an original factory tire (now the spare)? It's an 8.25-14 Uniroyal Laredo 4-ply rated (WW)? '69 appears to have utilized both tire sizing methods, numeric (like above) and the letter series (G78-14).

Dennis
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  #43  
Old 01-11-2023, 06:58 PM
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Looks just like the original spare on my 69 LeMans 4dr. A V8 A body (non GTO) would come with 8.25 Blackwall tire and the whitewall version was a super popular option. You could optionally order the G78 and G70 tires that were offered on the GTO but very few buyers did.

Typically the numeric (7.75, 8.25, 8.55 etc) were bias ply while the letter series (E, F, G, H etc) were bias belted and gave you more tread width compared to a numeric tire of the same overall width.

The standard Tempest, Custom S and LeMans tires were the 7.75 black (a wagon, or a V8 or AC or any combination bumped you to the 8.25). These were black or a 3/4” or so white wall. Next up were the G78 in 3/8 red or white line (black wall wasn’t offered) in nylon or extra cost fiberglass. Top of the line were the G70 wide-o-oval in 3/8” white or redline (again no blackwall) in fiberglass only. Those tires were in the $100 plus cost so nobody ordered them.

By the way do you have the correct air cleaner for the 350 HO? It is unique to that engine but can be assembled from other air cleaners. It is the single large snorkel air cleaner base used on the 68 GTO, 68-9 Fbird 400, 69 GP with either 428 and all the 69-69 full sized 428’s except the 360 horse 69 Bonneville 428. The difference is that it uses the black lid from the regular small snorkel 4bbl air cleaner (as used on 68-69 full sized 400-4bbl and the 69 GP with a 400 4bbl). Those lids are physically the same other than the paint versus chrome.

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1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
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  #44  
Old 01-11-2023, 07:25 PM
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Here is an original one
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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #45  
Old 01-11-2023, 08:59 PM
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Thanks North, it's good to confirm that it is an old original Uniroyal OEM tire. I haven't ordered the PHS yet, but option list should show the low-cost whitewall option then, along with power steering, power brakes (drum), TH400 (Power Group?), 350 4-bbl (HO), H.D. Safe-T-Track, the Deluxe Trim Group (deluxe steering wheel, pedal trim, rocker moldings, and full-size wheel covers?), and an AM radio.

No, we don't have another large single snorkel air cleaner, so we'll be looking for one.

Dennis

  #46  
Old 01-11-2023, 10:30 PM
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The Custom S came standard with the deluxe steering wheel (three spoke). I don’t think yours had the decor group because it would have the wood grain on the dash. The decor group also included window frame moldings, deluxe wheel covers, pedal bright trim and concealed wipers. You could order all that stuff separately though.

The 350 HO cost $188.52 which was only $78 more than the 350 2bbl. But since the HO included duals it really only cost $47 extra. A hell of a bargain to go from 265 to 330 horse! Standard auto trans ratio was 3.23 with or without AC.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #47  
Old 01-12-2023, 09:11 AM
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Thanks North for the education! I'm learning much about these strange '69 Pontiacs! I've been '70 & later, so this is the oldest poncho I've ever owned...lol! This Custom S has the XH 3.55 Safe-T-Track (upside down in the attached picture) in it that we understand to be the standard rear gear...with & without AC. We did verify the gear ratio too.

Dennis
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  #48  
Old 01-12-2023, 05:21 PM
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Getting a bit closer to looking more 'factree'...should be able to move on its own power tomorrow. Here are before & after pics of the engine change over from 'hotrod' to stock.

Dennis
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  #49  
Old 01-12-2023, 05:53 PM
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Very unique cool car Dennis, nice buy.

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1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90
1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built
1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint
1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011
1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009
1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42
1987 GN Astro Roof
  #50  
Old 01-12-2023, 06:08 PM
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Nodular rear housing? Look for big "N" cast above pinion nose.

  #51  
Old 01-12-2023, 06:16 PM
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Very unique cool car Dennis, nice buy.
Thanks Rich! I think I need intervention...

Dennis

  #52  
Old 01-12-2023, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
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Nodular rear housing? Look for big "N" cast above pinion nose.
We haven't checked that yet, but it is on our minds to do. We're going to Whistle the engine tomorrow to see what the cold/hot compression ratios are to compare to Dan's '69 350HO Firebird.

Dennis
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  #53  
Old 01-13-2023, 06:26 PM
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I looked up the axle ratio data and some factory documents say 3.23 with auto trans (with and without AC) but most say 3.55 (also with and without AC), given that the ones that said 3.23 were early and/or preproduction. So, either they were all 3.55 or they switched from 3.23 to 3.55 early in the model run. For what it's worth there are some good reasons to doubt the accuracy of these charts because some say there was a 3.08 and 3.36 offered for special order with automatic trans and others say there were no optional ratios. another shows 3.55 as standard with or without AC but also shows a special order 3.55 that can't be ordered with AC ?!?

Regardless this was a stout car. I suspect that without AC and the 3.55 it might have embarrassed many a GTO with AC and 3.23's.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
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Old 01-13-2023, 06:28 PM
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One thing I'm curious about is what the weight difference was between a 4 door sedan and say a two door hardtop? the extra 4" of wheelbase must add a 100 pounds or so? Plus the extra two doors?

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #55  
Old 01-13-2023, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
Thanks Rich! I think I need intervention...

Dennis
No you do not Dennis ,perfectly sane normal great guy!

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Owner/Operator of Pure Stock Auto Restorations Inc.
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1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90
1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built
1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint
1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011
1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009
1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42
1987 GN Astro Roof
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  #56  
Old 01-13-2023, 07:59 PM
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No you do not Dennis ,perfectly sane normal great guy!
I think you have a very strong support group here.

Very cool to see your recent acquisition that is in such great condition. Thanks for taking the time to post here.

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  #57  
Old 01-13-2023, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
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One thing I'm curious about is what the weight difference was between a 4 door sedan and say a two door hardtop? the extra 4" of wheelbase must add a 100 pounds or so? Plus the extra two doors?
From "Pontiac: The Complete History 1926-1979" by Thomas Bonsall - pg 297

1969 Tempest Custom S 4-dr sedan - 3235 lbs
Tempest Custom S 2-dr hdtp - 3220 lbs
LeMans 2-dr htp - 3245 lbs
GTO 2-dr htp - 3503 lbs

FWIW - James Q

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  #58  
Old 01-13-2023, 08:14 PM
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Just wondering if it might have the Pure Stock Drags in it's future?

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Old 01-13-2023, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
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One thing I'm curious about is what the weight difference was between a 4 door sedan and say a two door hardtop? the extra 4" of wheelbase must add a 100 pounds or so? Plus the extra two doors?
The weights are listed in the AMA charts. Haven't looked at mine in forever, so I don't recall if I have the A-body docs. I'll try to look this weekend.

  #60  
Old 01-13-2023, 08:57 PM
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I always thought the AMA weights were for the basic car without options. So the GTO would have the V8 and the cast iron Dearborn transmission as well as the upgraded interior and trim.
The custom S would have the OHC and saginaw 3 spd plus basic interior.

I'd say they might be pretty close in weight given the extra two doors .

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