[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

All-Pontiac already did that. They had a batch of "soft" blocks (still harder than OEM) and offered them for considerably less than your suggested list price.... They had a hard time selling them.

I remember that. But they were still the IA2 chunk of iron blocks with the straight deck surfaces. They could not handle the power of a good IA2 but still looked like a IA2. Very limited market.
What I am talking about is a block that looks nearly identical to a 70 400 block. Scalloped in between the bores like a PMD block.
Just have 5-10 lbs more iron in key places.
Those blocks would sell and would handle more power than a OEM block too.
Aftermarket Pontiac blocks are kind of ugly. But beautiful ugly if that is all we have to choose from.

[Gach]

They didn’t sell because the Pontiac guys need to be educated. All this stuff about use of stock blocks and given impression they’ll handle 700 hp is no help. The chevy guys are far more educated in the aftermarket. No one talks about the cost of doing stock block correctly, and the down falls if it hasn’t. If they knew the ture cost of actually doing that block they pick up for 300-400.00 bucks then that Allpontiac block would’ve of looked very attractive. As a rule the Pontiac guys are a cheap bunch…LOL also there’s a big difference between a street cruiser and something that you want to make 650-700 hp.

Have quite a few Pontiac friends over the years, and I always hear I have this stock block I paid $200.00 I want to make 650 hp with, they think they can do it for $800.00. The Chevy guys think nothing of dishing out 12-14,000.00 grand for a motor from Shuffleoff. Motor. Like I said just recently just over saw doing a 400 block for a friend who have $2700.00 just in the short block. And he ate never going to never see 750 hp on pump gas. Like his Chevelle body .lol the Chevelle is going to eat his lunch.

[Gach]

I mean I get it most of the Pontiac hobby is nostalgia stuff, restoring bring back old GTO or Firebird for Nice street cruiser. But the guys who want more then that are in trouble because the quality of Pontiac aftermarket just isn’t there.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I remember that. But they were still the IA2 chunk of iron blocks with the straight deck surfaces. They could not handle the power of a good IA2 but still looked like a IA2. Very limited market.
What I am talking about is a block that looks nearly identical to a 70 400 block. Scalloped in between the bores like a PMD block.
Just have 5-10 lbs more iron in key places.
Those blocks would sell and would handle more power than a OEM block too.
Aftermarket Pontiac blocks are kind of ugly. But beautiful ugly if that is all we have to choose from.

Sounds like an opportunity for you.... I'm not sure a "not as good" block for $2500 a unit will out sell a better quality block that's priced at $1800... But I have been wrong before.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Gach

I mean I get it most of the Pontiac hobby is nostalgia stuff, restoring bring back old GTO or Firebird for Nice street cruiser. But the guys who want more then that are in trouble because the quality of Pontiac aftermarket just isn’t there.

Knocking the quality of the aftermarket parts we do get made hurts us. It can not help the situation.
Comparing a BBC block to a Pontiac block is not a fair comparison. The Chevy block is a physically larger , of coarse it will handle more power.
Paul K has built more stock block Pontiacs than me, you and most others here and has some really good numbers from them.
So I am going to say it can be done, it just has to be done right.
Its well known a Pontiac can make 600 HP all day long and last forever with not too much extra done to the build.
So if a person goes though the effort of filling the block and using splayed billet caps with a very good parts selection and getting it all done well below 7000 RPM in a 700HP effort I do not see what the big deal is.
Its all a risk but I have ran my 455, beat the snot out of it and my RPM level will be just about the same. never had a issue with the 455 and I do not see a issue trying to make a bit more power with the same RPM.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Sounds like an opportunity for you.... I'm not sure a "not as good" block for $2500 a unit will out sell a better quality block that's priced at $1800... But I have been wrong before.

Not rich Paul. I just threw 2500$ out there because getting it done for 1500 $ is a pipe dream.
I am just saying we could use something in between a full out race block and our OEM blocks that are drying up and who knows what they have been though.
So many street guys have a issue with how aftermarket blocks look.
We all hear the horror stories about money put into a block then finding out there is a major problem.

[b-man]

The new iron aftermarket blocks are currently selling in the 4k range.

The actual cost to manufacture one is roughly the same as the cheaper ‘sportsman’ or street block you’re envisioning. Maybe a little less iron in the street block but that’s a drop in the bucket, all the casting and machining costs would essentially be the same.

Save your money and get what we’re lucky to have already, support the Pontiac aftermarket and forget about that street block that’ll never be produced.

[Gach]

Originally Posted by b-man

The new iron aftermarket blocks are currently selling in the 4k range.

The actual cost to manufacture one is roughly the same as the cheaper ‘sportsman’ or street block you’re envisioning. Maybe a little less iron in the street block but that’s a drop in the bucket, all the casting and machining costs would essentially be the same.

Save your money and get what we’re lucky to have already, support the Pontiac aftermarket and forget about that street block that’ll never be produced.

Exactly it’s never going to happen

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Knocking the quality of the aftermarket parts we do get made hurts us. It can not help the situation.
Comparing a BBC block to a Pontiac block is not a fair comparison. The Chevy block is a physically larger , of coarse it will handle more power.
Paul K has built more stock block Pontiacs than me, you and most others here and has some really good numbers from them.
So I am going to say it can be done, it just has to be done right.
Its well known a Pontiac can make 600 HP all day long and last forever with not too much extra done to the build.
So if a person goes though the effort of filling the block and using splayed billet caps with a very good parts selection and getting it all done well below 7000 RPM in a 700HP effort I do not see what the big deal is.
Its all a risk but I have ran my 455, beat the snot out of it and my RPM level will be just about the same. never had a issue with the 455 and I do not see a issue trying to make a bit more power with the same RPM.

I’m laughing because its was John Marcella who made the comment on Facebook, Pontiac aftermarket junk. Is he hurting the hobby..LOL you make it to obvious about your inexperience. All I’m saying is spending $2700.00 on a stock block is what we are left with. Look what 64speed has gone though in past year 1/2. How many more guys like that are we going to loose. Especially with guys given the false assumption that a stock Pontiac block is going to live very long making 700 hp. Chee does that make guys want to jump all over it. Then get severely disappointed when it fails.

[Gach]

Its not the end of the world Rich is good example nice 461 with out box e-heads nice Crower hyd cam basically Ram IV spec’s 500 hp on pump gas. Runs 11.60’s more then enough for nice street cruiser. And a little ET bragging rights. Surely not a guy whos going to spend $4000.00 on aftermarket block.

[Stan Weiss]

I guess it is a good thing that in the late 199X the internet was not what it is today. Or else Marty Palbykin would have never tried what he did. Make 1600 HP with a PMD block and heads.

Stan

[Gach]

That was before IA block was available, I was in negotiations with him to buy his E-Heads he ran 7.40’s with, which I ended up buying. On phone with him when Big chief was picking up his car. Marty had already gone BBC. Running Pro Mod. You should see the car he’s running now unbelievable not sure he’s had any track time yet. I still remember the day Bob Maxey called me, he said your not going to believe this but there’s a guy at Norwalk with 70 GTO that just ran 7.4 or 7.60’s. No one had gotten out of the high 8’s at the time. Marty and I still talk to this day. Why they never offered him and IA block I’ll never understand guy definitely Pontiac legend.

[Gach]

He actually ran that 6.9 with Iron heads, I asked him about the E-head he said it was easier or harder to do it with E-Heads not that it could’ve been done. I still have those heads to this day, believe it or not they are not wide ports and only flow about 230 cfm. Just goes to show the power you can make with twin turbo’s.

[Stan Weiss]

I talked with Jim Yanoski about this earlier this year.
The most powerful cast iron block and head Pontiac GTO in the WORLD!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXrrNxpPrIw

1584 RWHP

Stan

[Gach]

That video is about 3 years old..LOL I wonder why he’s never been to any of the Pontiac events with it. I ask Jim what he ran for ET’s with it but I never really got a answer, just wonder if he beat Marty Record. I’ll bet after talking about all these stock blocks Big chief might just sell Rocker 1 and Rocker 2 IA blocks. I asked Big Chief why did you spend all that money on IA blocks..when you could be running some easy to pick up stock Pontiac blocks for 200-300 bucks He laughed and said your joking right. LOL

[Gach]

I wonder why Guido not running stock block, no that’s the ultimate killer car, how many times has he won. I’m telling you these guys are throwing away allot of money when they could pick up a stock block for peanuts. Perhaps they’re not following these threads. LOL

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by b-man

The new iron aftermarket blocks are currently selling in the 4k range.

The actual cost to manufacture one is roughly the same as the cheaper ‘sportsman’ or street block you’re envisioning. Maybe a little less iron in the street block but that’s a drop in the bucket, all the casting and machining costs would essentially be the same.

Save your money and get what we’re lucky to have already, support the Pontiac aftermarket and forget about that street block that’ll never be produced.

I get it, never going to happen. I do think people would pay up, even at or near a current aftermarket block if it looked OEM and was quality.
We are lucky to have what we do and should not be tearing up the manufacturers who go out of their way to make us what they do.
We could be in the Olds category as far as parts.

[Dragncar]

No one in their right mind is trying to make 800-900 HP NA with a stock Pontiac block. That is not even a question.
But 700 stock block NA horsepower is a been there and done that thing in the Pontiac world. High Ports did it with a member on this thread. And the block was still good enough to get top dollar for after he was done with it.
I bought a HP stud girdle from a member who had a stroker in the 740 HP range with a .750 lift cam. Engine is still doing fine as far as I know. He upgraded to shaft rockers when I bought the girdle.
Then I upgraded to shafts and now have a extra girdle.
Engine Masters got 730 HP with a cam smaller than mine and they ran a 1050 too.
I think I am good only wanting 690-710 HP.
Another member has a stock block in the 800 HP range with a single turbo for years and years.
Not the same thing as Marty, Chief or Guido.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Gach

I’m laughing because its was John Marcella who made the comment on Facebook, Pontiac aftermarket junk. Is he hurting the hobby..LOL you make it to obvious about your inexperience. All I’m saying is spending $2700.00 on a stock block is what we are left with. Look what 64speed has gone though in past year 1/2. How many more guys like that are we going to loose. Especially with guys given the false assumption that a stock Pontiac block is going to live very long making 700 hp. Chee does that make guys want to jump all over it. Then get severely disappointed when it fails.

Now that strikes me as something said years ago when folks had to spend a bunch to get their IA2 in top shape, including you. But around 2016 All Pontiac made a bunch of improvements to their blocks and they were a lot closer to being ready to run. KRE went through some of the same stuff.
I think they deserve credit for making their product better and should not have to relive the earlier days. It does not help the hobby dragging it up.
Both of them are great to deal with.
Not sure why you are throwing out the "inexperience" word. When you are asked to show your experience, engines built, dyno number, track numbers somehow it does not happen. Even though it was promised.
No one has to spend 2700$ on a block for a street cruiser. My 455 did not get decked or line bored. Just a tq plate bore hone and lifter restrictors. Beat on it for 30 years and still is fine. And we can do the restrictors ourselves and tap the galleys. Even though they do not need it.
Just need to pick a good block, yes that is getting tougher all the time but it can be done.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Gach

That video is about 3 years old..LOL I wonder why he’s never been to any of the Pontiac events with it. I ask Jim what he ran for ET’s with it but I never really got a answer, just wonder if he beat Marty Record. I’ll bet after talking about all these stock blocks Big chief might just sell Rocker 1 and Rocker 2 IA blocks. I asked Big Chief why did you spend all that money on IA blocks..when you could be running some easy to pick up stock Pontiac blocks for 200-300 bucks He laughed and said your joking right. LOL

That video is more like 5 years old. I will not get into what Jim told me about the GTO.

Before the GTO Jim had a Firebird with PMD block and heads that he said made 800 HP N/A and 1000 HP with a small shoot of nitrous.

Now as far as 700 N/A HP and living, maybe people need to talk with Jim Robertson.

Stan