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Old 05-16-2018, 06:45 AM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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kmeyer54, Sounds like the tranny lines let go. Keep going, we all have these kinds of setbacks with our toys and the hardest work is done. The squeal could be the belts since everything had to come apart to replace the WP...or the alternator...but my bet is on the belts.

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Old 05-16-2018, 10:21 AM
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There should be short pieces of rubber line connecting the radiator to the transmission hard lines, I'm guessing one of those has failed. Another possibility is one of the hard lines themselves; I had one once where one of the mounting brackets for a hard line wore a hole in it, and I was able to solder up the hole.

I agree on the belts. Make sure they're tight and also that everything is lined up (i.e. you didn't miss a spacer or something, so the alternator or power steering pump or whatever is cockeyed). To isolate the noise you can remove one belt at a time and run the engine briefly to see if the squealing goes away.

After working on it all those hours I can understand being discouraged, but after a good night's sleep you can look at it with fresh eyes and figure out what's going on.

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Old 05-16-2018, 11:58 AM
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Like a mothers love for her baby and the pain of childbirth the misery of what happened to you yesterday will actually build your bond with the car.

Assuming that all the belts are properly aligned I'd check that you didn't over tighten them, overloading the bearings somewhere. I use a short piece of hardwood (broom handle etc) and carefully place it against the water pump, alternator, power steering pump, AC compressor etc and hold the other end to my ear with the engine running. You should easily hear-feel the cause of the problem.

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:18 PM
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To avoid confusion, in my previous post I should have said "tensioned properly" instead of "tight". A belt that's too loose can make noise but as North mentions above, too tight can be a problem as well.

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Old 05-16-2018, 04:26 PM
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Alternator light and a new belt squealing points to the alternator not tensioned properly as mentioned above. Most of my experience is too loose causing a squeal and no charge, but if you overtighten the heck out of a belt and it glazes badly, it's just as bad as too loose (presuming it doesn't eat the bearings first).

Check the belt tension on the alternator: 1/2" or so of deflection is the spec if I'm remembering correctly (I just do it by feel now).

The tranny fluid everywhere is also likely the cooler lines having given out. I'm going to argue with Stuart as I don't believe there is rubber on the tranny cooler lines, they should be hard lines from the transmission all the way to the radiator and back with flared nut fittings (my '67 and '68 were both that way as was my '71-80 car collection). Even if I'm wrong... If you have done anything to the radiator lately it's easy to not get them sealed properly and thus leaks. It's conversely easy to clean them out and do them right too so don't lose heart.

After 10 hours and being super tired, don't fret. Just revisit with a clear head and you'll be set for another 50k miles. I found a leaking line on my transmission on the '73 just this past week 3 years after I last had the engine out and replaced the radiator, it's just the name of the game on 45-50 year old cars.

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Old 05-16-2018, 05:26 PM
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Thankfully I'm a bit less frustrated now. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow night with some adjustments I'll have her running right again. I haven't done much with the belt tension yet, so hopefully that explains the squealing. It did sound somewhat like belt squeal when revving the engine. As for the transmission lines, I'm quite sure that the leak under the radiator is the lower trans line into the radiator. My main concern is the leak towards the back since I haven't been able to crawl back under the car and check it out yet. My suspicion is that it's the other end of the same line, though, since that one gave me some trouble. Hopefully there's no permanent damage to the line. There is no rubber component on either of the trans lines on this car. It appears to be a solid line all the way through.

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Old 05-16-2018, 05:33 PM
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It's just the nature of these things. But they can be FIXED. (Unlike our two legged pursuits.)

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  #48  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:52 AM
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At this point it looks like another 2 weeks to a month in the garage. The squeaking is still present. I took a video of it which I'm going to try to upload to YouTube for you guys to listen to and see if you have any input. I have adjusted the tension of the belts to the 1/2" spec and still have the squeak and the alternator light. I located the ATF leaks. The first is where I suspected it would be, the lower trans cooler fitting. The fitting is seized and already starting to round off with the little bit of work I did tonight, so at this point I think I'll just replace the radiator too. While serviceable, its not in the greatest condition and not worth fighting the seized fittings over. The second leak is at the bracket that holds the two teams cooler lines about half way. I'm thinking that I caused the damage there while shifting the radiator around with the fittings still attached. I'll he ordering new lines from Ames soon, and now I'm definitely in the market for a radiator.
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  #49  
Old 05-17-2018, 01:24 AM
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Here is the link to the YouTube video:
https://youtu.be/UZsC8woEy9k

I'm thinking it sounds like a bad bearing somewhere, but for the life of me I can't figure out where. Thoughts? This also shows one of the two trans cooler line leaks.

  #50  
Old 05-18-2018, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyer54 View Post
Here is the link to the YouTube video:
https://youtu.be/UZsC8woEy9k

I'm thinking it sounds like a bad bearing somewhere, but for the life of me I can't figure out where. Thoughts? This also shows one of the two trans cooler line leaks.
Kerry, try a simple test. Take the belt loose from the alternator, and start the car again. If the squeaking goes away, you've found your culprit. The belts look aligned and tensioned okay in your video, so you could have an alternator bearing going out.

Since you mentioned the alt light is on also, check the simple things first... are all of the wires still attached properly to the back of the alternator? If so, you're down to about two things. First, pull the alternator back off, and run down to your local Auto Zone. They'll spin check it for you and tell you if it's bad or not. If so, problem solved. If not, it could be your voltage regulator, but not likely to me. If it was charging before your water pump adventure, it's likely still just fine. My bet is on the alternator.

The small leak from your trans line doesn't look horrible. I know the fittings are soft and they do round off easily, but since you might end up replacing them anyway, why not try snugging them down again? If the wrench won't do it, try with a pair of channel locks. Yes, they will chew up the flared fitting, but it likely won't need much tightening to stop the drip. And it costs nothing. May as well try before you replace them, right?

Hang in there, Kerry. You'll have her back on the road before you know it!

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Old 05-18-2018, 01:50 AM
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I definitely plan on checking the alternator more thoroughly. It would be a shame to have it go out given that it seems to be one of the newest parts in the car, but honestly I'd rather replace that than any of the other components I just finished replacing. It's just way easier to replace the alternator.

As for the trans cooler lines, unfortunately they can't be salvaged. There is damage to one or both lines at the bracket holding them against the frame, which I caused during the previous repairs. There is a second and more substantial leak in that area, which is in one of the pictures I attached to the post before the video link. As soon as I finish typing this I'll be ordering them from Ames. I might, however, be able to keep the current radiator if I can use channel locks to loosen the trans cooler lines. I'll need to pick up a new pair anyway since my cheap Autozone pair gave up the ghost during these last repairs.

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Old 05-18-2018, 12:55 PM
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I removed the belts one at a time today and tested individual components. The alternator, power steering pump, and a/c compressor aren't responsible for the squeaking. It sounds like it's either my fan clutch or my brand new water pump. I think my next step is to reassemble using the old pump and see if the noise persists. If it doesn't, I'll go fight with O'Reilly for a refund on the defective pump and then order one from Ames. I was also able to loosen both trans cooler lines with the channel locks after a bit of a fight, so I'm a bit on the fence again as far as the radiator replacement.

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Old 05-19-2018, 01:39 AM
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Tonight brings both good news and bad news. I got the car together enough to be driveable for short distances because the starter in my Saturn picked today to stop working properly and I need the garage to replace it tomorrow morning. I took the Cat out for a short cruise a few blocks away to get a late night meal, and it seems that the squeaking noise is gone. I'm chalking it up to some sort of break-in issue since no new problems have developed. On the other hand, the trans cooler line leak at the bracket is now spraying ATF onto the passenger side of the block, which then burns off and creates a rather impressive smoke show. Since I already have a set of those ordered, I'm not too worried. The alternator dummy light is still on, but unless the Walmart battery in the Cat is just that impressive I think the alternator is actually still charging at least to some extent. Glad to have my girl on the road again, however briefly!

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Old 05-20-2018, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmeyer54 View Post
The alternator dummy light is still on, but unless the Walmart battery in the Cat is just that impressive I think the alternator is actually still charging at least to some extent.
You absolutely need to verify this. These older cars have very minimal electronics to keep them running. A fully charged battery can do multiple starts on a weak\dying alternator\charging system and still the car will start and run... until it doesn't. My first ever "glowing ALT light" ended up leaving me stranded at the grocery store years back. Verify the charging system with a multimeter, then repair it so it either charges or the indicator works as it should. It's the only way to have a reliable car - I won't drive a car with any regularity that doesn't have functional gauges\indicators.

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Old 05-20-2018, 09:26 PM
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It's easy enough to check to see if the alternator is working, if you have a voltmeter - measure voltage across the battery terminals while the engine is running, it should be around 13.5 to 14.5 volts.

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Old 05-21-2018, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben M. View Post
You absolutely need to verify this. These older cars have very minimal electronics to keep them running. A fully charged battery can do multiple starts on a weak\dying alternator\charging system and still the car will start and run... until it doesn't. My first ever "glowing ALT light" ended up leaving me stranded at the grocery store years back. Verify the charging system with a multimeter, then repair it so it either charges or the indicator works as it should. It's the only way to have a reliable car - I won't drive a car with any regularity that doesn't have functional gauges\indicators.
I certainly will be verifying this, I just have a couple other issues to attend to first. Turns out the squeaking goes away at operating temp but comes back if I restart the engine after it cools, so I still need to remove the new pump and get it replaced. Then it's just a waiting game for the trans cooler lines to arrive.

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Old 05-30-2018, 05:04 PM
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More good news! A few days ago I removed the fan and fan clutch to begin to address the squeaking. I decided to run the engine just long enough to see if the squeaking was still present with those parts removed. Turns out, it went away. I bolted the fan and clutch back on and started her up again, and now the squeaking is gone. My best guess is that something was just slightly "off" when I bolted them on the first time, which caused the bearing in the fan clutch to rub or something along those lines. Then I started double-checking the alternator and found that the plastic connector in the back wasn't quite seated right. This solved my alternator light, and I verified that it is charging now with a multimeter. Now I'm just waiting for the transmission cooler lines to finally arrive from the manufacturer so I can get her back on the road and make sure that the new water pump solved my overheating issue that initially took her off the road. Also, does anyone know of an OEM-looking replacement for the plastic shielding that covers the wiring on the driver's side of the engine? Mine was already rough but it melted somewhat during the overheating incident so I just pulled it off.

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Old 05-30-2018, 05:23 PM
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Kerry, That's great news. I hope it solves your overheating problem too. Overheating engines takes the fun out of the hobby but is solvable with patience, time and money. As for the plastic loom shielding, I would imagine our host sells them, or M&H Auto Electrics, or the other vendors that sell replacement wiring looms.

Dennis

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Old 09-01-2018, 04:32 PM
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As of today the Catalina is back on the road. It has also been pressed into service as my daily for a few weeks since my girlfriend's Nissan SUV developed rear-end problems and she is now borrowing my '98 Saturn that I normally daily. It has now had the entire cooling system replaced with the exception of the thermostat, which I have and will be replacing soon. It now has a new radiator, a new water pump (which started this mess in the first place), and a new severe duty fan clutch. She is running like a dream with the exception of the fact that she is still leaking oil from the oil pump gasket, which is dripping onto the exhaust and creating the occasional smoke show. I replaced the gasket already, but it seems the new one didn't take very well. She also needs the v-belts replaced, which will be happening soon since I already have the new belts. I'm still trying to decide whether to try to track down R-12 to recharge the A/C or attempt an R-134 conversion. Either way, I'm just thrilled to have her back in driveable condition.

On the interior, I have started contemplating replacing the rubber floor mats. The ones currently in the car are pretty worn and I suspect they aren't original. I can't place the logo on them, but offhand it's not a logo I would associate with Pontiac, GM, or Fisher. I will attach a picture of the current mats for those of you with more experience to take a look at.
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  #60  
Old 09-01-2018, 04:59 PM
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Those floor mats are aftermarket, probably a universal fit - I don't know where those particular ones were sold, but they're typical of what you could get back in the day from an auto parts store or even Sears and Roebuck or Montgomery Ward.

I occasionally see similar ones at swap meets, or you can probably find them on eBay or even sometimes in the classified ads on the Jalopy Journal / H.A.M.B. board.

Not sure what you mean by oil pump gasket, since the oil pump is internal to the engine...did you mean the gasket on the oil filter mount?

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