[78w72]

Originally Posted by carbking

On older cars with automatic transmission, the transmission REQUIRES the engine to be completely to operating temperature before the choke completely relaxes. At the first stop sign, choke was completely off, engine stalled, and would not restart as the choke was completely off. Wife walked home. Of course, when I got home, choke was completely closed, and engine started normally. The worst thing was I did not initially figure out the problem, and didn't fix it; figured just a fluke. Same thing happened the next day! That night, wife said fix it, or buy me a different car! That was a Friday. Saturday, after testing, fabricated a new choke stove and reinstalled the hot air choke cover. We put another 200,000 miles on that car!

As far as the Toyota versus the TransAm: never tried to run them at top speed, so don't know; neither one was awe-inspiring after maybe 80. The Toyota needed a sway bar, don't know what the T/A needed. The Toyota, with a full tank of gasoline, weighed about 2150. The TransAm, with a full tank of gasoline weighed about 3900. Before the turbo, I could spot the TransAm first second gears in the 1/4. After the turbo, could only spot the TransAm first gear. TransAm had a dogmatic transmission.

Modifications to the Toyota: 1967 (pre-smog, but same engine) cylinder head and distributor; plus someone breathed on the carburetor. 4-speed was swapped out for a 5-speed, but gear ratios were the same, except for the 5th gear overdrive. This was purchased before I was bit by the "buy American" bug.

I don't care what the magazines said; we had both cars.

EDIT: had a telephone call, and quit before finishing. I don't know enough about torque converters and automatic transmissions to know why the newer automatics don't require the long warm-ups like the old ones did. Have had LOTS of customers of older cars in the last 25 years that didn't want to repair the heat tube in the intake manifold exhaust cross-over, put on an electric choke, and basically made the car not driveable until it warmed up. I used to tell customers to either fix it right, or go back in the house AFTER starting the car, and drink a second (maybe a third) cup of coffee. Once the engine is to normal operating temperature, no problem. Had my wife known to pump the footfeed several times and then start the car at half throttle, it would have worked; but she didn't know that. Personally, on my own drivers, I replace ALL automatic chokes AND automatic transmissions with manual ones.

Jon

never heard of choke operation that way where the transmission? requires a certain temp to pull off the choke. GM service manuals state the choke should pull off completely in just a few minutes, has nothing to do with the transmission. i have a factory electric choke on my 81 turbo TA & it pulls off within the specified time of about 2-3 minutes & runs perfectly fine when its pulled off in that time in any ambient temps, especially in warmer temps.
i also have a converted electric choke on my cliff built 78 Q-jet on a 500+hp stroker engine with auto trans that operates the same way, pulls off in a few minutes way before full engine temp & runs great. actually the electric choke cars function much better than the original hot air choke on my 78 TA with a cliff built carb.

as for the toyota vs T/A, i dont doubt your experience with them, but something wasnt right in the T/A if a toyota that runs 20 sec quarter mile times was beating a turbo'd 301 that bad. doesnt have to be max speed, every spec of the 2 cars shows a turbo 301 in stock form being faster than the toyota. yes the toyota is lighter but the added HP & TQ of the t/a more than made up for the weight differences. was just curious, but every car is different with lots of variables so i believe what you said for those 2 cars at that time.

[Sirrotica]

Back in the early 80s when electric chokes were becoming commonplace there were growing pains, one being as Jon has mentioned the choke opening at a quick rate that the car would stall.

I had run across a local mechanic that came up with a easy cheap way to fix that problem. He used a chrysler ballast resistor inline to the choke heat wire to slow it down. It worked quite well to keep the choke from opening too quickly, and leaning out the mixture too fast. It may not be the answer to everyone's electric choke problem, but it worked well back in the day on the then, new cars.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Back in the early 80s when electric chokes were becoming commonplace there were growing pains, one being as Jon has mentioned the choke opening at a quick rate that the car would stall.

I had run across a local mechanic that came up with a easy cheap way to fix that problem. He used a chrysler ballast resistor inline to the choke heat wire to slow it down. It worked quite well to keep the choke from opening too quickly, and leaning out the mixture too fast. It may not be the answer to everyone's electric choke problem, but it worked well back in the day on the then, new cars.

in my experiences with elect or hot air chokes, they are adjustable, you can adjust them to determine how long before they fully open... if its opening too fast it can be adjusted to stay on longer, or vice versa to open faster.

i dont doubt there can be variables & growing pains with each car, but for the most part i have never had problems with electric chokes, factory or converted. i also live in the midwest where we have pretty extreme seasonal changes in temps, once adjusted right, the electric choke cars run great in any temps up until it snows when i put them away for winter.

[Lemans64]

Taking the Auto trade as my Job. Yes it had it's benefits, but buying your own tools to the tune of at least 50g, putting up with stupid Engineers crap, then having to repair it in somebody else time frame, where they got the time from I don't know. I could have worked in the lumber industry for more money, less crap and no worries that somebody is gonna accuse you of not fixing something right, or crap goes wrong and you get to fix it for free. I did earn a living but it has taken a toll on my body and mind. A few more years to go.

[carbking]

Originally Posted by 78w72

in my experiences with elect or hot air chokes, they are adjustable, you can adjust them to determine how long before they fully open... if its opening too fast it can be adjusted to stay on longer, or vice versa to open faster.

i dont doubt there can be variables & growing pains with each car, but for the most part i have never had problems with electric chokes, factory or converted. i also live in the midwest where we have pretty extreme seasonal changes in temps, once adjusted right, the electric choke cars run great in any temps up until it snows when i put them away for winter.

This occurred almost 50 years ago. Aftermarket electric chokes were NOT adjustable (unless one fabricated a variable voltage source) at this time. Most were completely off in less than 1 minute. Guess I should have given a time-frame.

Jon

[78w72]

Originally Posted by carbking

This occurred almost 50 years ago. Aftermarket electric chokes were NOT adjustable (unless one fabricated a variable voltage source) at this time. Most were completely off in less than 1 minute. Guess I should have given a time-frame.

Jon

wasnt aware of any electric chokes at least on GM cars 50 years ago, they didnt come out until around 1980 or 81, all previous years were hot air. aftermarket may be different but the factory hot air or electric chokes were adjustable, at the coil itself & for the flapper by tweaking the arm. GM manuals describe the adjustments.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Lemans64

Taking the Auto trade as my Job. Yes it had it's benefits, but buying your own tools to the tune of at least 50g, putting up with stupid Engineers crap, then having to repair it in somebody else time frame, where they got the time from I don't know. I could have worked in the lumber industry for more money, less crap and no worries that somebody is gonna accuse you of not fixing something right, or crap goes wrong and you get to fix it for free. I did earn a living but it has taken a toll on my body and mind. A few more years to go.

After working on cars for a living most of my adult life, and being told by my father (also a mechanic most of his adult life) to learn most any trade but "auto mechanics", I couldn't agree with your sentiment more.

When my father tried unsuccessfully to dissuade me from making my living being a wrench turner, I'll never forget his words. "To be a successful mechanic you have to be fairly proficient at many trades, but you'll never be paid as much as any of those trades are". The older I got, the smarter he was.... Of course just out of high school, and Vo Tech, he was as dumb as a box of rocks, until I walked in his shoes, the further i walked the more his advice kept coming back to me............

Funny how that works out.....

[kingbuzzo]

I've never met a mechanic that actually likes cars - what is your secret!

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Lemans64

Taking the Auto trade as my Job. Yes it had it's benefits, but buying your own tools to the tune of at least 50g, putting up with stupid Engineers crap, then having to repair it in somebody else time frame, where they got the time from I don't know. I could have worked in the lumber industry for more money, less crap and no worries that somebody is gonna accuse you of not fixing something right, or crap goes wrong and you get to fix it for free. I did earn a living but it has taken a toll on my body and mind. A few more years to go.

1) I am an Engineer, 39 years in the game.

2) Last count I had 12 tool boxes (in my garage and workshop downstairs).
About 50% Snap-on stuff and 25% smaller Harbor Freight boxes, (7 drawer end cabinets, (as they are easier to organize in my workshop). The rest were older Sears chests.

3) I did the Mechanic job in my Uncles Pontiac Dealership for a few years and went back to the University for an advanced degree.

Several years working for Holley Carburetor and 39 years for the FOMOCO
guys. I did the 24 hour shift work in the Emissions/F.E. organization as my first job there. Threw 50 lb bags of shot (weight) to set the correct weight for EPA testing prior to shipping the vehicle to EPA's test site.

Did the traveling deal living out of Motel rooms another 8 years as a Truck Test Engineer. Testing was all over the USA.

Did the Advanced Engineering work for 6 years. Lots of travel to different test tracks and wind tunnels. Again living out of motel rooms or Company owned condos.

Research was nice as I was finally able to be with my family. But I have always been a hardware guy.

So you could have made more money working for the Lumber guys vs the Mechanic job. Why didn't you leave???

Always interested in why people stayed in the same job for years even though they hated the work. Care to explain????

Tom V.

[b-man]

Never ever made an automotive mistake.

Really.

[Tom Vaught]

I made lots of mistakes over the years, Bart. If you haven't made a mistake how can you learn anything vs "Book Knowledge". I am surprised to see you post that. I made my share of mistakes on my own vehicles. Never made mistakes on customers vehicles as I had experts watching over me.

What kinds of mistakes are you referring to: Starting the engine with no oil in it.
I did make a SALES mistake one time. Sold a Pontiac buddy a Crane camshaft.
New in the box 744 High lift camshaft.

He was trying to install it and it was not working out. Turns out the camshaft machinist apparently was going home
and the next shift guy grabbed the cam and put it in a shipping box without the cam keyway being machined.

So I brought him a second camshaft and he installed it. Worked great in his 65 Tri-Power GTO.

So I guess you could be correct that I have made automotive mistakes. Automotive being a large general topic.

Tom V.

[Simple Man]

Originally Posted by b-man

Never ever made an automotive mistake.

Really.

...

[Lemans64]

Not going to Blame Engineers, just something that comes up when doing our line of work, why did they do it like that. But ya my brother worked in Lumber industry for 40 years, made 5 bucks an hour more than me. He did not have a trade, nor did he have 50g in tools that he had to pay for. But to start over again in the middle or close to the end of my career life span was not really an option.

Life in the beginning was good, so never thought about moving into something else. By time it got bad it was too late to really gain anything, start at the bottom, no holidays, last on holiday list etc. Now I'm too old to go anywhere, 60 this year and just had Heart surgery so must wait out my time and maybe start picking my jobs. Things are getting tougher in the trade, nobody wants to pay to figure out what is going on in the vehicle. Nice to have this as a Hobby but as a career it's Tough to earn an Honest dollar. In Dealership life the Warranty flat rate system is not really that great.
But this is just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

1) I am an Engineer, 39 years in the game.

2) Last count I had 12 tool boxes (in my garage and workshop downstairs).
About 50% Snap-on stuff and 25% smaller Harbor Freight boxes, (7 drawer end cabinets, (as they are easier to organize in my workshop). The rest were older Sears chests.

3) I did the Mechanic job in my Uncles Pontiac Dealership for a few years and went back to the University for an advanced degree.

Several years working for Holley Carburetor and 39 years for the FOMOCO
guys. I did the 24 hour shift work in the Emissions/F.E. organization as my first job there. Threw 50 lb bags of shot (weight) to set the correct weight for EPA testing prior to shipping the vehicle to EPA's test site.

Did the traveling deal living out of Motel rooms another 8 years as a Truck Test Engineer. Testing was all over the USA.

Did the Advanced Engineering work for 6 years. Lots of travel to different test tracks and wind tunnels. Again living out of motel rooms or Company owned condos.

Research was nice as I was finally able to be with my family. But I have always been a hardware guy.

So you could have made more money working for the Lumber guys vs the Mechanic job. Why didn't you leave???

Always interested in why people stayed in the same job for years even though they hated the work. Care to explain????

Tom V.

[79firebird_99TA]

I was changing the oil on my Firebird 400. I was going through a divorce at the time. The wife was there packing her things. I happened to see a new "tramp stamp" on her when she bent over to pick something up. That rattled my mind. I finished with everything and started the car, and after 10 seconds there was no oil pressure. There was a pond of oil under the car. The oil filter was put on with the old seal still stuck to the block. At least there was no damage done, unless you're counting mentally!

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Lemans64

Not going to Blame Engineers, just something that comes up when doing our line of work, why did they do it like that. But ya my brother worked in Lumber industry for 40 years, made 5 bucks an hour more than me. He did not have a trade, nor did he have 50g in tools that he had to pay for. But to start over again in the middle or close to the end of my career life span was not really an option.

Life in the beginning was good, so never thought about moving into something else. By time it got bad it was too late to really gain anything, start at the bottom, no holidays, last on holiday list etc. Now I'm too old to go anywhere, 60 this year and just had Heart surgery so must wait out my time and maybe start picking my jobs. Things are getting tougher in the trade, nobody wants to pay to figure out what is going on in the vehicle. Nice to have this as a Hobby but as a career it's Tough to earn an Honest dollar. In Dealership life the Warranty flat rate system is not really that great.
But this is just my opinion.

Off topic but......Again, I greatly admire people that hang in there on their jobs.
Sounds like the Heart Surgery went well and I hope you have a quick recovery.

I have done stupid stuff in my life on my car but fortunately never got hurt by it on my 64 GTO.

I had a pressure plate fail and the engine would not drive the trans properly.
I was not married yet. There was a Home Depot/Lowes type store with-in 100 yards of the place where to car was parked.

So I had my GTO jack and I raised up the car enough to see the problem.
So I went to the store and bought 16 concrete blocks like used on a house foundation. I raised up the front of the car slowly
one block at a time and then did the rear of the car. (All with a car jack.)

I got the car high enough that I could work under the car and drop the trans on my chest after removing the driveshaft.
Then I removed the Lakewood and the Clutch parts.

I had my future wife take me to a auto parts store and bought a new clutch/pressure plate.

About 1/2 way thru the reinstallation, (Lakewood was back on), a Mall "Rent a Cop came by and asked what I was doing.
I told him I had a part fail and I replaced the part and would be done in a couple of hours.

So in two hours he came back, as I raised the car slightly we removed a block at a time on the front and a block at a time
on the rear. Eventually it was back on the pavement on the times again.

At that time I had no clue how weak and dangerous the concrete blocks were.
So I admit to doing stupid stuff, not at work but in this case on my own vehicle.

So that is my story BART for this thread. I use wooden stands like you do now Bart.

Tom V.

[Jay S]

I have made some great automotive mistakes! I am going to keep my comments and stories on the lighter side.

One of the crazier mistakes involved a Pontiac, my brother, myself, and a bunch of classmates I went to school with that now are Engineers at John Deere, Caterpillar, New Holland, Xmart, Ariens, and several other well know companies, a couple were civil engineers also. The mistake was a kill switch on a remote control car. Not a small kids car, a 1980s Pontiac Bonneville wagon. Several guys chipped in and bought it. After finals, my classmate’s got together and worked on that 80s station wagon making it remote control to do a controlled jumped out in the middle of a farm field. It was just for fun to see how far we could get it to jump with a 1/4 mile run way.

It sounds crazy when I think of it now, a bunch of engineering students blowing off stress from school, i have no idea who thought it up originally. We did some tests and thought everything was ready to go. But on pass #1 the car spun out and did a donut, and took off full throttle in the wrong direction. I was driving a 4x4 with the guy running the remote control riding with me, he tried getting it under control, but didn’t have any luck. The kill switch didn’t work, it was a cord connected to the chase vehicle. We had to run the car down to stop it. I dove the 4x4 in front of the Bonneville and slowly let the car hit the back bumper and applied the brakes, probably hitting 30 mph by that time. The car was rapidly gaining speed. Luckily this was all before youtube! I think there were about 10 engineers with me that day. Everyone was kind of wiped out from finals and class projects. Someone overlooked hooking up the kill switch! Next pass with everything ready, we lined it back up, then right before the ramp it hit some mud, spun to the left and hit a tree! That Bonneville was possessed! What can I say…mistakes were made!

[Rugratman]

Went racing and took the air filter off to go faster. Left the shorty carb stud in.
It rattled out and down the carb at 100 mph.
Grenaded my new expensive engine.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Jay S]

Here is an automotive mistake I see over and over again made by others, and one I totally learned the hard way. That is exhaust systems that end right at the back axle. We ran one for years, no issues, and did not think anything of it. We had the car for along time, little did we know the seals on the gas tank and rubber hose on the vents were getting older and apparently not doing their job as well. A needle and seat stuck on it’s holley carb, the engine back fired… then the gas tank caught on fire. Luckily we carried a big fired extinguisher! It ended up not hurting anything, but scary does not come close to describing that.

[Skip Fix]

First hot rod the 409 impala-put clutch disc in backwards rubbed the crap out of the flywheel bolts!. Cam swap did not exactly line the gear dots as did not know how to rotate crank but thought we had it exactly just one tooth rotation from lining up . Popped and farted, blued the nice newly chromed headers firing out with the exhaust valve open.

[77 Canamman]

My 1984 and 1986 305 Caprices with Q-Jet had an electric choke and a 700R4 trans. Never had an issue with either of them with a cold start and initial takeoff.

My 1972 Chevy C20 with 402, TH400, Q-Jet with the divorced choke goes right into drive and takes right off once the engine has built up normal oil pressure.

Same with my 1976 LeMans with the Q-Jet, hot air choke and TH400.