Non Pontiac Motors in Pontiacs includes factory 403,305,350 Chevy, Buick V6,
Also Pontiac Motors in non-Pontiacs!

          
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  #81  
Old 11-07-2008, 09:31 PM
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Ok so far so good you are still cheaper than building an IA2, it will be lots of power too, sedate and get 23+ mpg.

If you figure a very well built stocker 400 with all the new exhaust and tanks and such you are still about dead even and will get twice the gas mileage and still have a motor that acts mellow but has the punch without a temperment.

You could save a little money with buying a take out of a wrecked car but better safe than sorry and you get the latest and greatest. Hell a take out LS3 versus a new crate LS3 is just a few pennies anyway so a crate makes lots of sense.


Cannot wait to see it sitting in the hole and all that, exciting you are making it real hard for me to not install the LS1 I have in my 65 wagon. it is supposed to go into my 37 ford so it can be my economy car LOL

ON the trans part that is a tough call I bet you get a mild built 4l60 or 65 and it will be enough. the 4l80 of course would be even better but money and I think you would have to cut the floor some more and have a separate computer.

Ok so while I am spending your money just get one of those new 6 speed automatics that would be real cool and then put a paddly shift on your steering. Done deal!! LOL

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  #82  
Old 11-07-2008, 09:35 PM
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Any sources for take out LSx's?

I had a link to a place in texas but can not find it.

  #83  
Old 11-07-2008, 09:40 PM
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They are all over the place just gotta weed out the greedy guys and look them over real good with all those flood cars out there. I have seen some low mileage motors in pics that had some pretty crusty bolts and such on them showing massive salt or submersion.

I would def. want to get the vin of the car th emotor came out of and carfax it just to see if anything pops up as in a total loss and where...thats just me

I have seen LS1's as low as 2k for a low miler all the way up to 9k for a take out and trans for an LS2. and definitely anywhere in between

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  #84  
Old 11-08-2008, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponjohn View Post
Any sources for take out LSx's?

I had a link to a place in texas but can not find it.
www.jjsautomotive.com ask for Brian. Located near Pittsburgh, but ships all ocver the worl. He's a friend of mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gto65lvr
I would def. want to get the vin of the car th emotor came out of and carfax it just to see if anything pops up as in a total loss and where...thats just me
You serious? Why would someone pull a motor/trans out of a car that was not a total loss? That's why these cars end up at salvage yards. Obviously nobody wants a junk motor, but if you deal with a decent, reputable shop you sholdn't have any worries. I have seen fire damaged & flooded motors that were just fine but needed a bunch of accy items to get running again. My T56 that's in my truck came from a burnt '95 camaro that even the shifter was melted and not much else was any good. The trans has taken almost 10 years of abuse without any trouble.

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1966 GTO Montero Red Hardtop - Holley EFI'd 462, KRE DPorts/Muncie 4spd
1990 Chevy 454SS pickup - Accel DFI/T56 6spd - Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
1996 Chevy K2500 ECSB 'Poopy'
2002 Honda VTX1800C
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My project thread: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=516826


Last edited by 6 Grrrs; 11-08-2008 at 09:21 AM.
  #85  
Old 11-08-2008, 11:17 AM
jimmy-ny jimmy-ny is offline
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Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
You should also give Jeff Schwartz a call.
Bart - use the Schwartz ("Spaceballs")

Couldn't help myself. But this thread is incredible. Good luck with the project. I remember seeing Andrew's GTO a few years back and when I first picked up my Tempest, an LSx possibility was definitely my plan at some future date.

Jimmy

  #86  
Old 11-08-2008, 08:10 PM
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I'm still salivating over those pics of the white Tempest! 2 door post, off white, and dog dish covers coupled with a real nice stance.

That's an excellent candidate for an LS swap!

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  #87  
Old 11-08-2008, 11:14 PM
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Default It's a dirty job.....

.....but someone's gotta do it. Some unpleasant but necessary work needs to be done to prepare for the drivetrain swap.

Since the weather's been extra nice (in the mid-80s) the last few days I took the opportunity to do some more badly-needed garage cleaning and remove the interior from the Tempest.

Junk in the trunk. Most of the parts I've collected so far are crammed in the trunk until I have a better place to put them.



A good used '66 8.2" 3.36 posi rear has been put aside for this project, already scrubbed down with a wire brush and some Simple Green. Two coats of POR-15 semi-gloss black, urethane upper bushings, and some better-fitting brake lines are all it needs. A new charge of GM #1052271 80W-90 axle lubricant and a 4oz bottle of GM #1052358 limited slip axle lubricant additive will be added as well.

Note to self: Do not hammer it too hard out of the hole with this rear end!



This is the farthest the Tempest has ventured out of the garage in years, just far enough to get the driver's door open to access the front seat bolts. It pushes back inside pretty easily, the driveway slope isn't too severe at this point. The original black CA plates just add to the charm of this once thrifty little beauty.



A shot of the original 140 HP 215 straight six that came in this car, it's identical to the 230 Chevy six other than having a smaller bore size (3.750" vs 3.875" for the 230) and having 'PONTIAC' cast into both sides of the block. So yes the little Tempest originally came with a 'corporate' engine of sorts.

The same engine was used for the '65 A-body as the standard engine as well, both the Lemans and Tempest rolled off the assembly line with one of these if you didn't ask for the 326 V8. It's getting a 'corporate' engine again that will get even better gas mileage and have about 4 times the power.



A look inside before the teardown. The seats are in need of attention, especially the front bench. A nice blue indian blanket (already removed here) made the front bench liveable in the past, but now it's time for a decent upholstery job. All of the upholstery pictured is the original issue for this '64 Tempest.







A shot of the original rubber floor mats that came in the low-line Tempest. Easy to clean off with a sponge and soapy water, I kind of prefer these rubber mats to carpet in a daily driver.



What I now have to deal with : Removal of all the old sound deadener and some minor (I hope) rust repair. I do see a few holes that have started under the driver's foot area and one just behind the passenger side of the front bench where it bolts down. All of the bolts holding the seat belts and front seat down came out easily.



A look at the dash and front floors. Note the original cardboard sun visors that don't attach and pivot off of the rear view mirror, there's no day-night mirror on this base model. Simple and inexpensive, but still a lot of car for the money back in '64.



Seats stashed until I can get them to an upholstery shop.



Junk now out of the trunk. I have a '66 VW Type II pickup stashed in the garage, it makes a perfect work bench or storage spot. The completely flat bed on this little one-ton truck is 5' 6" wide and 8' 10" long. The 'covered wagon' canvas top is a unique factory option on this truck.


  #88  
Old 11-09-2008, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Overkillphil View Post
I'm still salivating over those pics of the white Tempest! 2 door post, off white, and dog dish covers coupled with a real nice stance.

That's an excellent candidate for an LS swap!
Absolutely!!

  #89  
Old 11-09-2008, 12:25 PM
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Ummmmm. Bman....corvette rims on the VW? That is a very cool piece.

How long have had the 64? Obviously very solid, original paint?
Are you going to do mehcanical gauges or OBDII based guages?

John

  #90  
Old 11-09-2008, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponjohn View Post
Ummmmm. Bman....corvette rims on the VW? That is a very cool piece.

How long have had the 64? Obviously very solid, original paint?
Are you going to do mehcanical gauges or OBDII based guages?

John
John,

I put those 16X8.5" 1984 'vette rims and 205/55-16 tires on it back in '86, when all the Corvette guys were dumping them for aftermarket rims or for newer 'vette 16X9.5" rims. Drilled the front discs (off a '71 Type II Bus) and the rear drums (IRS rear suspension/drum brakes off a '70 Type III Squareback) for the Chevy 5 on 4.75" pattern and they bolted right on with no room to spare, but with no cutting on the body.

And if you're wondering, it does handle. With a 94.5" wheelbase that's within an inch or two of a C4/C5 'vette, a super-low center of gravity (only the cab itself puts any real weight above the beltline), fully independent suspension and an empty weight of only 2400# it corners like it's on rails.

I've owned the Tempest since 1996, it was 100% bone-stock. I drove it for 46K miles commuting with the original (rebuilt) 215-6/2-speed auto/2.56 gears getting 20 MPG on the average. I took it to the track once just for fun and it ran close to 20 seconds-flat at almost 70 MPH, never shifting out of low gear.

Most of the white paint is original, some of it is various bodyshop paint matches from some minor aches and pains it suffered over the years. It looks better in pictures than in person, but it does have a nice patina and looks great going down the road.

I'll try to use mechanical gauges wherever I can, to keep the look as low-key and as low-tech as possible. If I have to use anything different, I'll tuck them under the dash if possible.

  #91  
Old 11-10-2008, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Grrrs View Post
www.jjsautomotive.com ask for Brian. Located near Pittsburgh, but ships all ocver the worl. He's a friend of mine.



You serious? Why would someone pull a motor/trans out of a car that was not a total loss? That's why these cars end up at salvage yards. Obviously nobody wants a junk motor, but if you deal with a decent, reputable shop you sholdn't have any worries. I have seen fire damaged & flooded motors that were just fine but needed a bunch of accy items to get running again. My T56 that's in my truck came from a burnt '95 camaro that even the shifter was melted and not much else was any good. The trans has taken almost 10 years of abuse without any trouble.

I said this because you want to make sure the car was not front ended and hit the crank balancer can damage things sometimes the recyclers will pull the pulleys off because they got bent and or replace the balancer. Then you have a crank and bearings that could be wiped

also if it was a flood car was it fresh or salt water? Makes a big difference

never get a car that was in salt water major issues, fresh water it will last a little longer before corrosion issues with electronics and related.

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  #92  
Old 11-10-2008, 07:11 PM
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B-man but the LS in the VW yeeeeeee hawwwwwwwwwwww

I saw a guy make bolt on plates and slide a solid axle right onto/into the vw spring plates and mid mounted a small block right in the floor behind the seats in a bus this was many moons ago was around for a long time

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  #93  
Old 11-11-2008, 10:27 AM
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...So when does the engine show up at your door?

  #94  
Old 11-11-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b-man View Post
.....

A shot of the original 140 HP 215 straight six that came in this car, it's identical to the 230 Chevy six other than having a smaller bore size (3.750" vs 3.875" for the 230) and having 'PONTIAC' cast into both sides of the block. So yes the little Tempest originally came with a 'corporate' engine of sorts.

The same engine was used for the '65 A-body as the standard engine as well, both the Lemans and Tempest rolled off the assembly line with one of these if you didn't ask for the 326 V8. It's getting a 'corporate' engine again that will get even better gas mileage and have about 4 times the power.
Yeah that's a spiffy little engine... took mine to a chassis dyno just for laughs. I made a whopping 59 HP at the rear wheels.... but the carb was shot. I probably have a full 80 HP at the wheels now

This is a great project - can't wait to see the finished product!

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  #95  
Old 11-11-2008, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 455HOGT37 View Post
...So when does the engine show up at your door?
Had a slight problem with getting payment to go through on Friday, but it's all taken care of now. The LS3 will show up at my work early next week, I'll have one of the guys forklift it into the back of my trusty (not rusty) old '70 Chevy C20 pickup.

New PYPES 3" X-pipe/2.5" tailpipes exhaust showed up today, another piece of the puzzle.

  #96  
Old 11-11-2008, 10:20 PM
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I'd hoped you would have it sooner... I'm going down your way on Friday. I guess some other time.

  #97  
Old 11-12-2008, 12:12 PM
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Great progress!

Andrew

  #98  
Old 11-12-2008, 10:17 PM
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Great progress!

Andrew
Thanks, not a lot going on with the actual swap yet as I need to do a few things to the old relic before I start stuffing the drivetrain in.

However I'm really doing a great job of spending money and stashing parts!

  #99  
Old 11-13-2008, 02:04 AM
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I'm at about the same stage you are with my conversion, using almost the same parts, LS3 crate etc. My car however is a 68 Lemans that is being converted to a GTO.

I ordered my wiring harness and computers from Speartech since for one reason or other I didn't like the other aftermarket solutions. The GMPP harness requires special software to tune and is not compatible with OBD2 scanners. It also does not talk to an auto transmission controller. The cost of this solution with a GMPP transmission controller is about nearly $2000.

Mast Motor Sports makes a harness/computer that looks very good on the surface but is not truly OBD2 compatible, supports only VDO CAN gauge and cannot be scanned by an OBD2 scanner. By the time you add the transmission controller you are at nearly $3000.

Speartech make a harness and uses GM computers for both the engine and transmission for $1695. This was the choice I made since it can use any of the standard OBD2 scanners, gauges or tuning software. The Speartech solution will also give you cruse control it you want it, which the other two do not. (Mast tells me the cruse has not been done on their computer and is not a high priority).

The main point of interest here is that your selection of a 4L60E will depend on what controller you use. Speartech tells me that for a 4L60E to work with the LS3 and factory GM controllers (NOT GMPP) that the transmission will have to be configured like it is being installed in a 06 Trailblazer SS and not like the typical Camaro transmission that is commonly used. Apparently the output shaft and control electronics are different.

I also had sticker shock when pricing starters. I have not purchased mine yet.

  #100  
Old 11-13-2008, 02:27 AM
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Just an FYI...currently, you can get 2007/2008 Trailblazer SS ECM/TCM pairs for about $160.

I don't know how you'd make it work, but that's a very good deal as of now.

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