[1968junkerjim]

Could somebody please help me read this trim tag the gentleman Claiming it’s a GTO , I am wondering why there is a 5 and no letter with it for an example N

[Keith Seymore]

PHS is the only way to know for sure.

K

[1968junkerjim]

Sure is hard to buy GTO project without a pHs and could just be a LeMans i’ve got phs before in previous cars I have done,but the seller does not have one so basically it’s like rolling the dice. Just kind of wondering if that is normal to have the 5 with no letter behind it on tag?from what I’ve seen on other 65 gto tags, the 5N is in a totally different area more to the left bottom

[1968junkerjim]

Hope someone can chime in. I have to make the deal soon just doesn’t make sense to me. It’s a Kansas City build so it should have 5N anyone agree?

[donziboy]

IMO without PHS it’s a LeMans, don’t move forward unless the owner produces it or if it’s something you’re truly interested in than you order it. Cheap insurance and small price to pay. That tag tells me it’s not a GTO. Good luck

[1968junkerjim]

Thank you !

[OG68]

From Chevellestuff.net IRT Kansas City trim tags

The fourth (and fifth if applicable) information line contains group option codes. The lone "5" in the first trim tag is often found with no option letters following it


https://chevellestuff.net/tech/artic...gs/tt_1965.htm

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

It would be the first known example without 5N from KC.
I wouldn't trust it to come back a documented GTO - would do that first.
PHS has emergency service - be sure to emphasize it is an emergency.
Include your phone number and have your card ready.

"Need verbal or text written confirmation asap about GTO status - can send me documents at later convenience".

You will likely pay a little more for that - but better than getting stiffed if you need it to be GTO for sure.

[1968junkerjim]

OK, thank you ,the gentleman is not very knowledgeable with Pontiacs didn’t know about the PHS. I told him I talked with Pontiac members, and in our opinion, we think it’s Probably not a GTO he’s so sure that it’s a GTO he sent in for the PHS yesterday so 3 to 5 days I’ll post the results.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Not necessarily always conclusive , but the guys who don't have much depth in Pontiac knowledge (aka sellers) always seem to think they have expert opinions on matters of authenticity details.

What you want to see is the actual Billing History Card , not the option sheet with highlighted options.
Should be a 2 in Box #38 (GTO)
Combination of Box #75 & 76 should be YS , YR , WT , WS , one of those combos
Y codes Automatic
W codes Manual

It's not difficult to transpose a 2 in box 38 , when that box is blank (non-GTO)
Transposing an engine code is more intricate.
But we have seen such things.

[donziboy]

Very good and looking forward to reading the PHS results. Also would like to see a few pictures of the car as it appears now, maybe inside the trunk looking at the quarter panel to see if there is evidence of the holes drilled for the LaMans lettering. Pontiac listed codes on the bottom of the trim data tag and they were used to identify equipment or specific options installed at the factory. There were (5) five group codes used. My cold read yesterday of the trim tag you show tells me the car is a 1965 Burgundy / Parchment LaMans Sport Coupe.
Group 1 or E - soft ray tinted glass
Group 2 KWP - A/C, 2 speed automatic, backup lamps
Group 5 - none listed
Since you’re looking for a project once the owner learns it not a GTO you may want to try and negotiate a deal. There are not many around anymore and depending on the the condition it could result in a nice car that would get a lot of attention.

[1968junkerjim]

Thank everyone for all the help. I’ve definitely learned an about 1965 Pontiac Identification. The car is about 3 hour away to look at it. no pictures of inside quarter panel holes does not have matching numbers motor or running motor . I don’t want to get the Gentleman upset. I’m sure whoever he bought it from told him it was a GTO still going to try to buy it even if not GTO

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Sounds like you will be okay either way.
Good luck going forward.

[scott06]

yes kansas city and Pontiac plants should have a 5N other plants will not have the 5N. I would say based of the tag it is a lemans

[60sstuff]

PHS is a must, especially on ‘64-‘65 GTO’s, or a POP if one’s lucky.

One other form of positive ID when it comes to the 5N is a birth certificate hidden in the interior of the car.
I was thrilled to find this paper certificate in the springs of the rear lower cushion on my ‘65 GTO.
The numbers on this paper match the Data Plate numbers, plus the all important 5N out of the Baltimore plant.

[1968junkerjim]

Just wanted to update on trim tag seller said he got information back from PHS but not much detail on the car ???still up in the air if it’s a GTO ???and he shook hands with someone and they are picking up the car today so I guess I’m the bad guy for giving him the information /bad news, and I’m sure he’s in denial. It’s a Le Mans for sure. Thanks everyone.