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  #41  
Old 07-18-2022, 07:52 AM
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I offer this simple example- Imagine a world where a person plunks down $50,000 for nice 1964 GTO, but as they try to sell it 3 years later, an informed buyer tells them that it actually started life as a Lemans, and the value is significantly decreased because of that.
PHS, like it or not, is cheap insurance especially for those early cars where vin number is not indicative of model. It also comes into play for actual options vs added options if that is important to someone.

Like anything else though, we have the choice to use or not use. $100 doesn't get much anymore. Not a set of factory rubber floor mats, maybe a pair of windshield wipers with new refills? or two belts and two radiator hoses?

  #42  
Old 07-18-2022, 09:23 AM
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There was a question on this forum about waiting for the service, I spoke to Jim, alls well, he still does it, but backed up a bit. Be patient
I did my car in the 80’s, you’d get a packet of stuff, even mailed from Pontiac HQ.
Saw this Lemans yesterday at the Packard show, we were joking to PHS it to see if it was a Lemans , lmao
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  #43  
Old 07-18-2022, 09:50 AM
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I had PHS done on my 64 GTO before I bought it. The PO hadn’t/wouldn’t and the trim tag had been destroyed but the blaster. I was able to verify that the car started out as a tripower GTO. Since I was the only person in the know it gave me a leg up on the other interested parties and the seller.

I know fans of other GM brands would love access to these kinds of records.

  #44  
Old 07-18-2022, 04:28 PM
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A few packets I got from Jim when he first got the info had factory b&w press photos with a press release of the model you ordered. I was pleasantly surprised to see a factory photo of my formula 455 and ordered a window sticker back then.

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  #45  
Old 07-18-2022, 06:54 PM
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Yes. Lots of paperwork. I also got a nice glossy photo with the kit. It’s somewhere. Lol
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Last edited by burd; 07-18-2022 at 07:04 PM.
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  #46  
Old 07-18-2022, 09:55 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhill86 View Post
That would be cool, thank you.
Best I can make out the Dealer name and with a little help from Google:

Belcastro Pontiac Inc.
23225 Woodward
Ferndale, MI 48220

Harry Belcastro bought the former Higgins Pontiac dealership in 1972.

The Dealer No. was 07-034 although I don't see that on the invoice record, perhaps somebody with a clear 1978 invoice can help identify where on the record it might exist and therefore enable you to spot it.

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  #47  
Old 07-18-2022, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John V. View Post
Best I can make out the Dealer name and with a little help from Google:

Belcastro Pontiac Inc.
23225 Woodward
Ferndale, MI 48220

Harry Belcastro bought the former Higgins Pontiac dealership in 1972.

The Dealer No. was 07-034 although I don't see that on the invoice record, perhaps somebody with a clear 1978 invoice can help identify where on the record it might exist and therefore enable you to spot it.
Wow, I never would’ve been able to decipher that I don’t think but looking at it now, it looks like it fits! Thank you!

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  #48  
Old 07-19-2022, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John V. View Post
Best I can make out the Dealer name and with a little help from Google:

Belcastro Pontiac Inc.
23225 Woodward
Ferndale, MI 48220

Harry Belcastro bought the former Higgins Pontiac dealership in 1972.

The Dealer No. was 07-034 although I don't see that on the invoice record, perhaps somebody with a clear 1978 invoice can help identify where on the record it might exist and therefore enable you to spot it.
Well done, John.

I agree. I had to wait until this morning to look at it on my BIG monitor in my office.

The building is still standing although now vacant. It's got that cool rounded glassed in corner.

K



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  #49  
Old 07-19-2022, 09:27 AM
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Thank you. I found the top photo as well but little else other than a bit of info on the name/owner change. Still, that was one piece of info I hoped to acquire with my PHS so you helped make the purchase worth it.

I also found that a member recently sold a license plate frame from that dealer back in the beginning of the year. Too bad I didn’t know at the time. Anyway, thank you again. Sorry for getting off on a tangent.

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  #50  
Old 07-19-2022, 09:59 AM
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I have a Belcastro in the collection. I collect Michigan Pontiac dealer key chains.
It’s got a naked lady on the back, you should see it.
Ya, B, this ain’t ufb, keep on topic. Lmao
Keith, ext time you come over, let’s put dealer codes on my key chains.
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  #51  
Old 07-19-2022, 03:05 PM
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Pretty funny newspaper ad for "Happy" Harry from 1972 when he was just starting out.

https://digital.bentley.umich.edu/dj...2.05.05.001/14

I thought it was interesting that your '77 TA "cruised" Woodward right from the start.

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  #52  
Old 07-19-2022, 03:33 PM
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I found the “glossy” pic that came with the PHS packet. It’s actually a 77 ta that came in my 78 stuff. Lol
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  #53  
Old 07-19-2022, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burd View Post
I have a Belcastro in the collection. I collect Michigan Pontiac dealer key chains.
It’s got a naked lady on the back, you should see it.
Ya, B, this ain’t ufb, keep on topic. Lmao
Keith, ext time you come over, let’s put dealer codes on my key chains.
Riiiight right lol. I posted the info over at UFB too for fun.

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  #54  
Old 07-19-2022, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John V. View Post
Pretty funny newspaper ad for "Happy" Harry from 1972 when he was just starting out.

https://digital.bentley.umich.edu/dj...2.05.05.001/14

I thought it was interesting that your '77 TA "cruised" Woodward right from the start.

I ran across that today too. And thought the same thing about Woodward. Car’s been there more than I ever have.

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  #55  
Old 07-19-2022, 05:18 PM
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Next time I’m down in Spermdale, I’ll look for the building.
BTW, Jim did say it’s all digital these days, no more PHS pa keys mailed out, , YOU do the printing.

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  #56  
Old 07-20-2022, 10:27 PM
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There was a rumor that if your order PHS, the option total (Horvath report) for that year is included. Any truth to that?

Year ago Jim told me the cost of digitizing would be prohibitive. As said, it is probably cheaper today. As a graphics expert, I'd even offer to help clean up scans.

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  #57  
Old 07-21-2022, 08:12 AM
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For Some, ANY cost to improve their business is prohibitive...Just sayin...
Kind of Surprised nobody here seems to be worried about the loss of these documents to time and conditions...
How does a person verify a car when the documents are beyond ability to read.
A proper Steward would "Find" a way to bring all these records into digital format.
which could include bringing a person/partner in to preserve these great documents. This has been offered by a least a few VERY qualified people...all met with the same response...
We can all agree we are very lucky to have these docs as many car makes do not but.....one day we don't want to look back and say "Remember when?"
Just think about it...
Of course maybe these posts just create a temporary influx of requests for paperwork as people will be worried about not getting one down the road...
More free $$.....

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  #58  
Old 07-21-2022, 09:31 AM
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End of the day, no one has a gun to your head to use PHS, again, someone who does something good for the hobby people complain, other brands would love to verify their car like PHS does.

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  #59  
Old 07-21-2022, 10:11 AM
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I look at it like a Museum, while it's understanable that an entry fee has to be charged for access to the artwork ... it's also the museums responsibility to maintain and protect the artwork in the best way possible.

I assume PHS is not a charity, so while I really appreciate the fact the information is available, I not going to consider it a favor to the hobby, it's a service, and people pay for it, so of course they have the right to voice their opinion on how that service is provided.

Personally I would have never had the idea to make money off of it, I would have called on volunteers to digitize all of it and make it freely available to the hobby I love. But then that's probably why I've been broke most of my life

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  #60  
Old 07-21-2022, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
GIVEN????? THAT IS ONE STORY. This is closer to the real story.

Years ago, when Pontiac announced it was closing its doors, a management decision said basically "everything goes into the dumpster".

So everything "went into the dumpster" I was told, but then Jim did a "Dumpster Dive" and took everything he could out of the dumpster and saved it.

I believe there was some legal opinions filed and the legal people said once it went into the dempster it was no longer GM property.

So Jim was able to save a bunch of Pontiac records but GM was not happy.

I assume the word went around GM, no more "dumpster diving", and the other OEMS followed suit.

A guy named Ran**zo, almost lost his job for climbing into a dumpster at MY work, BUT he was retrieving a part that should not have been thrown in the dumpster in the first place. A Security Guard saw him and tried to have him fired. Management said, "He should not have gone in the dumpster but he retrieved a critical parts that should not have been put in the dumpster in the first place." So Management saved his job. .....Tom V.
Reminds me of a Lengendary tale from GE-Astro East Windsor, circa 1994 the spacraft team was missing a million dollar MUX filter bank (silver-plate caliapy of large, thin metal filters of precise qualities) for a GEO satelite in rapid build. Well, a freegan dumpster-diver employee happen to find the MUX tossed by ????, in this one of all the dumpster diving he did. The MUX would be an above-typical find but within his rhelm of possibilities. About a month since missing a Facility PA announcement went out asking to scour the facility for the lost MUX but known to be received. Fella chimed in that he had it, etc and he became a rather heroic fella in the facility. MUX was blessed with holy water (IP2 and vacuum bake), performance measured and blessed by QC for intended use. Wolud have been hauled off otherwise.

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