#1  
Old 07-30-2022, 01:45 AM
yellow1098 yellow1098 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orlando
Posts: 112
Default Loose rocker? Tightening process in car

Finally got my brand new 461 home from the shop and on its first drive after breaking in and multiple test drives where everything sounded fine. I started to hear a loud ticking on its longest drive yet. Sounds to me like a loose rocker tapping and get much louder as rpms go up driving. .

Iím going to pull the valve cover and check them and tighten where necessary. Do you guys have any pro tips on doing this? Check push rod looseness and how much play should the rockers have? I was also thinking maybe the valve covers are to small and it might be hitting them. I canít tell but when I pull them I will look for marks.

They are enduro 1.65 rollerized rockers

Thank you all as usual!

  #2  
Old 07-30-2022, 06:38 AM
25stevem's Avatar
25stevem 25stevem is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,229
Default

I don’t have a warm a fuzzy feeling about your issue taking place!
A loose rocker noise should not get louder with increased load on the motor due to opening the throttle up, it’s rate of noise should just increase with rpm.

This noise to me that gets modulated by throttle application is classic rod knock!

The very first thing I would do before even thinking about starting the motor again is to cut the filter open and inspected it for metal and bearing material.

In terms of if it’s a valvetrain issue we need to know if your still using the factory studs and nuts that get torqued to ft lbs, or if you are running poly locks on those roller rockers?

__________________
You can cut out a manís tongue, but that does not mean heís a Liar, it just means you fear the truth that he might speak about you.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to 25stevem For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old 07-30-2022, 09:59 AM
yellow1098 yellow1098 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orlando
Posts: 112
Default

https://youtu.be/lLdxRF7-zic

Here is a video of it…let me know what you think…….your description of rate of noise increasing with rpm sounds more accurate than getting louder


Last edited by yellow1098; 07-30-2022 at 10:14 AM.
  #4  
Old 07-30-2022, 10:49 AM
67Fbird's Avatar
67Fbird 67Fbird is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: GA
Posts: 461
Default

yup yup on the rocker tick!!! hope thats all it is!

The Following User Says Thank You to 67Fbird For This Useful Post:
  #5  
Old 07-30-2022, 11:23 AM
78w72 78w72 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: iowa
Posts: 3,938
Default

doesnt sound like a rod knock at all so the glass is half full on that... its a very light lifter/rocker tapping sound to me. if it sounded ok the first few runs & break in, its not a rocker hitting the valve cover as that would have made noise on 1st start up. also with E-heads & roller rockers im sure they are poly lock nuts.

with this being aluminum heads & you said the noise showed up after a long drive (heat soaked) it may be from the alum heads expanding & the initial lifert adjustment not being enough preload. what type/brand of lifters?

if you want to re-adjust them i would suggest doing all of them using one of the procedures for adjusting rockers, cam on bottom of lobe & adjust the correct valve, there are instructions for that on here or can google them. dont try & adjust with engine running or guessing which rocker it is & tightening an unknown amount. some on here go further past the 1/2 turn past zero lash or run the nut all the way down then back off a certain amount. do a search for rocker arm adjustment, lots of good info on here.

  #6  
Old 07-30-2022, 02:29 PM
geeteeohguy's Avatar
geeteeohguy geeteeohguy is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fresno, California
Posts: 5,049
Default

X2 or 3 on excessive rocker lash. Just hoping it's not yet another flat cam/defective lifter.

__________________
Jeff
  #7  
Old 07-30-2022, 05:35 PM
1965gp 1965gp is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 820
Default

I had this issue on my 400 build and it ended up being a wiped cam lobe. Hope it’s just an adjustment for you.

The Following User Says Thank You to 1965gp For This Useful Post:
  #8  
Old 07-30-2022, 07:29 PM
Jim Moshier's Avatar
Jim Moshier Jim Moshier is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Acton, CA
Posts: 261
Default

Hyd Flat tappet or Roller lifters? Sounds like a lifter and hoping it’s not a flat lobe. Re-adjusting a rocker would be a win.

__________________
Jim Moshier

1971 Grand Prix 462ci SD Performance 6x heads
1962 Catalina 389
1968 Firebird 400-455 I haven't decided

"If we ever forget that we're one nation under GOD, then we will be a nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan
  #9  
Old 07-30-2022, 08:19 PM
TedRamAirII TedRamAirII is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 2,705
Default

If you think its a rocker hitting the valve cover, just put your hand on the cover, you should feel it hitting.

__________________
1968 Firebird 400 RAII M21, 3.31 12 bolt, Mayfair Maize.

Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't.
Bill Nye.
  #10  
Old 07-31-2022, 12:56 AM
yellow1098 yellow1098 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orlando
Posts: 112
Default

Thanks guys! So Iím gonna pull the valve cover tomorrow and check it out what specifically should I be looking for to confirm the loose rocker how much play is to much? Will one be much looser than the rest? Sorry for the probably obvious questionsÖ..also how can rule out and diagnose the cam lobes being an issue?

They are Johnson short Travel Hydraulic Roller lifters
enduro stainless steel rollerized 1.65 rockers

  #11  
Old 07-31-2022, 06:27 AM
25stevem's Avatar
25stevem 25stevem is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,229
Default

Since now you have supplied the info that you have roller lifters, this makes for a possible different story.

Your cam is likely fine, which is good because if it was a flat tappet cam you would be pulling the intake and valley pan off to confirm that the cam lobe in question is good or not.

I hope your issue is just that your poly lock has come loose.

__________________
You can cut out a manís tongue, but that does not mean heís a Liar, it just means you fear the truth that he might speak about you.
  #12  
Old 07-31-2022, 08:53 AM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 17,759
Default

sounding like a loose lash deal, or a relaxed valve cover gasket causing a hit, so far. HIS

Exhaust leak?

  #13  
Old 07-31-2022, 05:22 PM
yellow1098 yellow1098 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orlando
Posts: 112
Default

If you guys have any links or threads that do a good job walking through the proper way that would be great! Also when I take off the valve cover probably better to re do them all? Or just the noticeably loose push rod and rocker?

  #14  
Old 07-31-2022, 06:15 PM
GTOLou GTOLou is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 2,095
Default

Easiest way is with a cheap trigger/remote starter. Pull all the plugs and use that.

Use the EO/IC method to check lash/rocker adjustment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMX9994mTnA

that link is a guy do that in principle - just skip all the homemade remote starter nonsense .

Keep reading/learning. HR's will tic - if you are like me, you'll mess with it until you are positive that its just HR lifter noise.

  #15  
Old 07-31-2022, 06:17 PM
GTOLou GTOLou is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 2,095
Default

And 100% agree w/ HIS and others - make sure it is not something else...

  #16  
Old 07-31-2022, 06:24 PM
yellow1098 yellow1098 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orlando
Posts: 112
Default

I take it those marks tell the story no?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	D2D889BB-29E0-4A28-BFC0-D2EC9A9A7F85.jpg
Views:	289
Size:	60.5 KB
ID:	595450   Click image for larger version

Name:	1698D266-1D88-4943-B0F2-F052E18C89DE.jpg
Views:	273
Size:	62.2 KB
ID:	595451   Click image for larger version

Name:	81BD2885-B318-4F05-93C8-A9997B7B5F13.jpg
Views:	258
Size:	56.9 KB
ID:	595452   Click image for larger version

Name:	8DD2DCFE-4970-43F6-B1B3-8696FA76B8EE.jpg
Views:	263
Size:	76.2 KB
ID:	595453   Click image for larger version

Name:	A847D3E3-4A15-44B1-920F-73997444864C.jpg
Views:	271
Size:	59.2 KB
ID:	595454  


  #17  
Old 07-31-2022, 06:31 PM
lust4speed's Avatar
lust4speed lust4speed is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Yucaipa, SoCal
Posts: 8,463
Default

Since it is a new build with new heads you should be able to set a straight edge across the top of the polylocks and look for one that stands out. Something could have hung up during initial lashing that has now settled down allowing additional clearance. Works well on new heads and not so well on older heads that have had a valve job. Well, a Sunnen machine gets things really close and it would probably still work. Anyway, it's a down and dirty quick check that might save you some time.

__________________
Mick Batson
1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 2+2 survivor AC auto -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon in progress.
  #18  
Old 07-31-2022, 06:34 PM
25stevem's Avatar
25stevem 25stevem is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,229
Default

What marks are you talking about?

Those length wise scratches inside the valve cover can not be from the rockers!

__________________
You can cut out a manís tongue, but that does not mean heís a Liar, it just means you fear the truth that he might speak about you.
  #19  
Old 07-31-2022, 06:39 PM
yellow1098 yellow1098 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orlando
Posts: 112
Default

If you zoom in to the tops of a few of the rockers it looks like they got some damage marks no?

  #20  
Old 07-31-2022, 07:10 PM
lust4speed's Avatar
lust4speed lust4speed is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Yucaipa, SoCal
Posts: 8,463
Default

Stainless steel is very hard and aluminum is very soft. Those scratches are not witness marks from any contact. All you might see if there was contact is some aluminum discoloration at the very outer tip of the rocker and a polished spot on the inside of the valve cover. I see neither.

__________________
Mick Batson
1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 2+2 survivor AC auto -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon in progress.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:15 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017