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Old 07-31-2022, 10:51 AM
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Default Summit starter

This is the 3rd time this has happened. I put the starter on and it works great. It lasts about a month and then I starts making a grinding and crashing noise. I take it off, have the nose gear replaced at a rebuild shop and then it works great for a month. I canít wreck another flywheel. What am I doing wrong?

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Old 07-31-2022, 11:10 AM
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I had a Powermaster starter do the same thing and eat up the gear on my flywheel. The issue seemed to be that the starter gear was only engaging less than half of the flywheel gear and over time started to damage the teeth.

I resolved the issue by replacing the ring gear on the flywheel and switching to a RobbMC starter. The RobbMC starter extends the gear further towards the flywheel for better gear engagement.

Havenít had a problem since with this setup.

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Old 07-31-2022, 11:19 AM
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The factory type started needs to be retained by 3 bolts one of which goes on the non gear end of the starter with a bracket to keep the starter from cocking under load.

Also the two main bolts need to started bolts which have minimal side to side play in the starter nose casting.
You may not have the proper starter gear to flywheel gear clearance either.
Between the two gears when there meshing you should be able to get a leg of one of those big paper clips in there, so we are taking like .030”

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Old 07-31-2022, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25stevem View Post
The factory type started needs to be retained by 3 bolts one of which goes on the non gear end of the starter with a bracket to keep the starter from cocking under load.

Also the two main bolts need to started bolts which have minimal side to side play in the starter nose casting.
You may not have the proper starter gear to flywheel gear clearance either.
Between the two gears when there meshing you should be able to get a leg of one of those big paper clips in there, so we are taking like .030Ē
This^^^. Held up at the rear to keep it lined up.
I've been running GM starters in both GTO's for 40 years and I think the newest one is in the '67, which I installed in 1985. No issues, 100's of thousands of miles, under $30 cost (at the time).

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Old 07-31-2022, 12:06 PM
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I've used a Rob Mc starter for years wth no issues. I can say I'll probably never go back to a GM starter. I like the extra room with the smaller starter and never any heat soak.

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Old 07-31-2022, 12:10 PM
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I used a factory starter on my super charged 455 for 20 years and the only issue I had was heat soak which a isolated Ford started solenoid took care of.

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Old 07-31-2022, 12:11 PM
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I have been running a Summit starter for 15 or more years. It has been perfect, no hiccups. Same nose gear-clutch assembly.
The instructions said to use shims to tilt the starter for 1/8" clearance when the teeth come together. I ended up using a 1/2" flat washer on the outside bolt tilting the starter inward. Test fitted it by pulling the nose gear by hand into the ring gear and checking the clearance in the crotch of the teeth with 1/8" welding rod.

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Old 07-31-2022, 12:22 PM
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It seems everyone has varying experiences with all of the different starters. My brother has been using a Powermaster 9510 mini-starter for years and it has been fantastic. Stock starter always got heat soaked and didn't want to play ball. I'll be installing the same thing in my car and I'm anticipating similar results.

Not sure which Summit starter you have, but I'm generally a fan of Powermaster. I'm guessing the Summit stuff is made in China, whereas Powermaster is made outside of Chicago and they stand behind their products.

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Old 07-31-2022, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25stevem View Post
I used a factory starter on my super charged 455 for 20 years and the only issue I had was heat soak which a isolated Ford started solenoid took care of.
All my heat soak issues on all the first-gen GTO's I owned and worked on disappeared when I replaced the purple S wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid.

Mounting a Ford solenoid is a band-aid to high resistance in the S wire. And since the starter works fine with the Ford Solenoid, the starter itself never got heat soaked.

What happens is over time, resistance builds up internally in the S wire and it can no longer carry the current needed to kick the solenoid out when the system is hot. Resistance increases with heat, so when nothing happens when you hit the key on a hot re-start, it's no voltage TO the solenoid, not the solenoid. You can veryify by jumping the solenoid under the car.

Not meaning to rant here, but want to point out that Pontiac engineers had it pretty well figured out and the new super starters and band-aid solenoids are merely masking the real issue: 50 year old wiring with high resistance.

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Old 07-31-2022, 03:17 PM
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I am tired of this Summit Starter, for not much more I can have a ROBBMC. Its out of warranty so the rebuilds are on me and this is my 3rd go round. I am going to call him tomorrow and order one and get his exact advice on setup.

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Old 07-31-2022, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeteeohguy View Post
All my heat soak issues on all the first-gen GTO's I owned and worked on disappeared when I replaced the purple S wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid.

Mounting a Ford solenoid is a band-aid to high resistance in the S wire. And since the starter works fine with the Ford Solenoid, the starter itself never got heat soaked.

What happens is over time, resistance builds up internally in the S wire and it can no longer carry the current needed to kick the solenoid out when the system is hot. Resistance increases with heat, so when nothing happens when you hit the key on a hot re-start, it's no voltage TO the solenoid, not the solenoid. You can veryify by jumping the solenoid under the car.

Not meaning to rant here, but want to point out that Pontiac engineers had it pretty well figured out and the new super starters and band-aid solenoids are merely masking the real issue: 50 year old wiring with high resistance.
i will not dispute any of that, but a Ford solenoid has a lot of other advantages. You eliminate a huge run of always-hot high current wire and bump starting is much easier, for starters.

Get it? For "starters" ...

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Old 07-31-2022, 03:48 PM
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I’ve used an IMI on two different Pontiac engines without issue - each required different number of shims.

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Old 08-01-2022, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
i will not dispute any of that, but a Ford solenoid has a lot of other advantages.
Including making it exceptionally easy to steal a car or truck!

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Old 08-01-2022, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam View Post
Including making it exceptionally easy to steal a car or truck!
Yeah, but I82much's point on the long run of hot wire is totally valid. I've had that wire melt close to the ign switch on a couple of GTO's, and that's long before they were 55 year old cars!!

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Old 08-01-2022, 09:53 PM
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My arm always thanks me when Im installing a mini starter thats half the weight of that GM beast. Whatever makes you happy.

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Old 08-01-2022, 10:07 PM
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I bought the Robbmc with the reinforced nose for extra security. My 2cts.

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Old 08-01-2022, 10:20 PM
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i have had good luck with my powermaster. i would def use new starter bolts with the knurling and blue loctite. i almost seem to remember maybe having to get the pad on my starter cut down but can't remember and i have an ia2 block so even if so ymmv.

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Old 08-02-2022, 03:07 AM
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Summit starters were my go-to starter until about a year and a half ago. The starter blocks are now machined wrong and as mentioned above, the pinion gear only engages about half way into the ring gear (front to rear). I reported the problem with pics but nothing came of my complaint. I now order out IMI starters from Butler and they have been excellent.

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Old 08-02-2022, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lust4speed View Post
Summit starters were my go-to starter until about a year and a half ago. The starter blocks are now machined wrong and as mentioned above, the pinion gear only engages about half way into the ring gear (front to rear). I reported the problem with pics but nothing came of my complaint. I now order out IMI starters from Butler and they have been excellent.
This!

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Old 08-02-2022, 07:55 AM
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Dave - when did you purchase you Summit starter?

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