#1  
Old 02-23-2019, 12:07 AM
JUDGEMAN70 JUDGEMAN70 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Belvidere Illinois
Posts: 327
Default 69 GTO engine unit number stamping

Has anyone seen an engine unit number as sloppy as this one? Framington Mass. built car. Restamp?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	b111.jpg
Views:	414
Size:	138.6 KB
ID:	506376  

  #2  
Old 02-23-2019, 01:38 AM
Ram4king's Avatar
Ram4king Ram4king is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,692
Default

That's pathetic!

  #3  
Old 02-23-2019, 05:28 AM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

My guess is a forgery would look way better.
Although it does almost look like there are grinding marks ... but why forge the unit number ... the code is the important part.

  #4  
Old 02-23-2019, 09:32 AM
rustedgoat rustedgoat is online now
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 818
Default

Looks like first digit "1" is upside down. I know its the engine unit # but do those numbers match the last digits of the VIN?

__________________
"Honestly the car will only be there for a few weeks, OK maybe a month at the most"
  #5  
Old 02-23-2019, 11:52 AM
1969 Ram Air 1969 Ram Air is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 2,180
Default

Lack of gang stamping for sure. I'd like to see the partial VIN stamp.

__________________
69 GTO Judge, Liberty Blue/Parchment, RA3, 4-speed
69 GTO, Verdoro Green, Green, 400, 4-speed
69 Firebird 400, Starlight Black/Black, RA3, 4-speed, 611 RA Inlet
  #6  
Old 02-23-2019, 12:25 PM
muscle_collector's Avatar
muscle_collector muscle_collector is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 3,742
Default

you will see the sloppy work on the early SD engines and the ra 5 engines but for a WT ????

  #7  
Old 02-23-2019, 01:04 PM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustedgoat View Post
Looks like first digit "1" is upside down. I know its the engine unit # but do those numbers match the last digits of the VIN?
The engine unit numbers have to do with the order it was produced in the engine plant.

The VIN number is stamped lower down on the block. Same side as the unit number.

  #8  
Old 02-24-2019, 08:27 PM
Simple Man's Avatar
Simple Man Simple Man is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: behind Selldom-Wynn racing, Northern Indiana
Posts: 839
Default

Friday build.....

__________________
be a simple...kinda man.
  #9  
Old 02-24-2019, 08:32 PM
indymanjoe's Avatar
indymanjoe indymanjoe is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Milford Michigan
Posts: 1,652
Default

Or a long weekend build on a monday morning..

__________________
72 Luxury Lemans nicely optioned
These cars are meant to be driven, so enjoy the hell out of all of it - not just look at it when it's clean.
  #10  
Old 02-24-2019, 08:39 PM
Greg Reid's Avatar
Greg Reid Greg Reid is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palmetto, GA. USA
Posts: 16,163
Default

That looks very obviously ground down to me. The sanding marks are nearly visible even before you enlarge the photo!

__________________
Greg Reid
Palmetto, Georgia

  #11  
Old 02-25-2019, 01:46 AM
rustedgoat rustedgoat is online now
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 818
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
The engine unit numbers have to do with the order it was produced in the engine plant.

The VIN number is stamped lower down on the block. Same side as the unit number.
Was wondering if they just stamped there, not knowing it was in another location.

__________________
"Honestly the car will only be there for a few weeks, OK maybe a month at the most"
  #12  
Old 02-25-2019, 04:03 AM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

Greg, since the numbers are so badly stamped .... wonder if the factory ground off the "first try" because they were even worse (new guy on the line?), obviously they don't want to trash a block because of the numbers.

Looks ground to me too ... but why forge a unit number, it's pretty much meaningless.

Photo below showing top yellow circle, UNIT number and block letter code.

Lower yellow circle, location of VIN stamp.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	EngineNumberLocation.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	87.1 KB
ID:	506557  

  #13  
Old 02-25-2019, 04:12 AM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

Also ... that unit number and code looks very crisp.

If the engine is supposed to be original to the car ... boy I'd want to see the VIN stamp for sure.

( I'm curious ... is it possible to mill .030" off the engine front surface of a Pontiac V8 without causing any unusual problems or obvious visual cues?)

  #14  
Old 02-25-2019, 09:39 PM
grandam1979 grandam1979 is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ohio, Findlay
Posts: 1,430
Default

How’s this?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	54F16197-3C8B-4BC3-9ABE-A7171D3BCF07.jpg
Views:	226
Size:	43.2 KB
ID:	506615  

  #15  
Old 02-26-2019, 02:23 AM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

Well, the font looks a bit different. I have no idea if fonts were consistent from plant to plant.

  #16  
Old 02-26-2019, 03:10 AM
Greg Reid's Avatar
Greg Reid Greg Reid is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Palmetto, GA. USA
Posts: 16,163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
Looks ground to me too ... but why forge a unit number, it's pretty much meaningless.
I can't imagine why unless it was someone that thought that was where the partial VIN goes. Back when I bought my '68 (from a Chevy guy) he told me that the engine VIN did not match the car so a non matching engine. When I got it, I found that it did, in fact, match...he was looking at the EUN.

__________________
Greg Reid
Palmetto, Georgia

  #17  
Old 02-26-2019, 07:28 AM
DANTIP DANTIP is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUDGEMAN70 View Post
Has anyone seen an engine unit number as sloppy as this one? Framington Mass. built car. Restamp?
This one is pretty bad.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-02-26 at 6.26.40 AM.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	73.3 KB
ID:	506634  

  #18  
Old 02-26-2019, 02:44 PM
dataway's Avatar
dataway dataway is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Saratoga NY
Posts: 8,922
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Reid View Post
I can't imagine why unless it was someone that thought that was where the partial VIN goes. Back when I bought my '68 (from a Chevy guy) he told me that the engine VIN did not match the car so a non matching engine. When I got it, I found that it did, in fact, match...he was looking at the EUN.
Hehehe .. yep, if I found a block where the unit number matched the VIN, I would be very surprised. I hope you haggled the guy down because it had a crappy non-original engine

When it comes to RA IV stuff ... jeez, who knows, not me, I've never even seen one. I don't even know if they came off the regular engine line.

  #19  
Old 02-26-2019, 03:27 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: INJUN Territory, Red State Merica!
Posts: 9,568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
Well, the font looks a bit different. I have no idea if fonts were consistent from plant to plant.
The font of the two letter engine code & the font of the assembly number (Eun, for all the "Eunics") was the same, as both were stamped at the Pontiac MI engine plant. Only the partial VIN was stamped at assembly plants.

Am not sold on the font of the stamping of the 0's on the above WY coded block. To make a further judgement, would will need to examine a good amt of original '69 Pontiac blocks, I have a few '69 428's & can examine in the next month several '69 350's & 400's.

__________________
Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms.
  #20  
Old 02-26-2019, 03:59 PM
north's Avatar
north north is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,388
Default

Maybe someone found a WT block for the car and stamped the last six numbers of the VIN there because he thought that the EUN was the VIN. I wouldn't be surprised if the VIN on that car ends with 165749. My experience is that while assembly plant VIN stamps down below vary greatly from plant to plant and even car to car from the same plant. But the EUN and engine code look all the same regardless of assembly plant. Makes sense since they were probably all stamped by a machine as part of the machining process at the home plant foundry.

__________________
My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:46 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017