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Old 07-14-2022, 04:43 AM
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Roger, what is your preferred system for sanding/buffing/polishing the SPI clear?

I'll be using the Porta-Cable polisher.

I've got a roll of Dura-Gold 2000, and a roll of 3000, plenty of blocks but I've yet to decide on what compound/polishes to use. The test I did and posted in another thread was done with a sheet of 3M 2000, and Chemical Guys #32 and #36 polish, turned out OK. Was doing some work tonight with the Dura-Gold and was getting some scratches that surprised me ... only difference in technique was I was spraying water from a bottle instead of dipping the block in a bucket of water .... maybe picking up some grit that wasn't getting washed off the paper?

Anyway, any pointers, product suggestions etc would be appreciated ... I have this feeling that you are very accomplished at polishing.

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  #742  
Old 07-14-2022, 11:05 AM
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Your car is looking great won’t be long and you’ll be tearing it up. I wanted to let you know I went with the non AC front coil springs from Ames and standard rear coils. I purchased the complete polyurethane graphite steering package from PST along with same for rear control arms except I’m installing rubber on the upper control arms at the rear differential. I’ll let you know how it all works out once it’s back on the road.
Thanks.
I'll be anxious to hear how you like your stance and see photos.
I'm guessing the Ames front springs are Moog. Can you see a 4 digit number stamped into them? If so, let me know what that number is.

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It's nice to see her face again after all this time. Soon the bugs will love that fresh paint :\
Yes it is! It's getting even more fun to look at the car when I walk into the shop.

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Roger, what is your preferred system for sanding/buffing/polishing the SPI clear?

I'll be using the Porta-Cable polisher.

I've got a roll of Dura-Gold 2000, and a roll of 3000, plenty of blocks but I've yet to decide on what compound/polishes to use. The test I did and posted in another thread was done with a sheet of 3M 2000, and Chemical Guys #32 and #36 polish, turned out OK. Was doing some work tonight with the Dura-Gold and was getting some scratches that surprised me ... only difference in technique was I was spraying water from a bottle instead of dipping the block in a bucket of water .... maybe picking up some grit that wasn't getting washed off the paper?
Anyway, any pointers, product suggestions etc would be appreciated ... I have this feeling that you are very accomplished at polishing.
Over the years, I've tried many different processes and products and wasted a lot of money doing so. I never could see the point in sanding with 2000 and 3000. You can't tell if you've done it enough or done it too much and can't tell if the paper is worn out or not Tried the bumpy foam pads with a few newer 3M compounds and all the Chemical Guys products including their pads and ended up giving it all away when I couldn't get it to work for me very well at all. I kept going back to the old tried and true method of using a wool bonnet on a rotary with the older 3M compounds I was used to. My only problem with the wool pad method was introducing swirl marks from contaminates in the air.

Then back in about 2014 or so, I happened to read a forum thread on how to remove orange peel without sanding:
https://www.autopia.org/forums/paint-correction-and-gloss-enhancement/41226-game-changing-performance-carpro-denim-orange-peel-pad-review.html
I also watched a couple youtube videos on the process.

I wanted to try this out for myself so I bought a few of the Car-Pro denim pads and a bottle of Menzerna 400 compound. I already had a nice Rupes Bigfoot 15 orbital but my rotary was pretty old so I bought a new DeWalt DWP849X to use for the denim pads.
At this time, I was working on my '57 Chevy pickup which I had just painted with a dark green single-stage paint.
Immediately, I was impressed with what these pads and compound could do.
I did this without any color sanding at all:



This took about 4 or 5 iterations of applying compound to the pad and running the polisher over it.
For the next area, I color sanded with by hand wet with a rubber block and used a progression of 1000, 1200 and 1500 paper and then polished with the denim pad and Menzerna. This brought out the shine perfectly with just 2 iterations of compound/polishing. I thought this made more sense so that's the way I did it for the rest of the truck. I did figure out that depending on how much peel a particular area had, I could skip the 1000 or both the 1000 and 1200 and just use the 1500. The Menzerna 400 is a diminishing type of compound. Even though they call it a heavy cut once it drys out a bit, it will continue to polish to very high level of shine as you can see.

You can apply a final type polish on a foam pad if you want to but from what I found, it doesn't give much additional benefit. I have been using Meguiar's 205 on a Lake Country white foam pad and my Rupes orbital for that. It also makes a good maintenance polish when needed.
If a more aggressive maintenance polish it needed, I found using Meguiar's 105 on an orbital with a Lake Country HDO-550F microfiber pad works really well. Then follow up with the 205 on a white pad for a final.

My next project was my '83 El Camino which I painted with SPI single-stage white. I used the same process as I ended up using on the pickup.



I painted my Bel Air back in 2011/12 with base/clear (SPI Universal Clear). It came out so well as sprayed, I didn't color sand it at all back then. However, after I finished my El Camino, I went back and used the denim pad and Menzerna 400 on without color sanding at all. Then finaled with the 205 and white pad.
I used an LED flashlight to check for flatness, swirls and micro scratches:



I've also done this on some factory cars (no color sanding). It worked really well on the 2008 Corvette I owned and a couple of other late model GM cars. I tried it on a friend's 2002 Porsche that had a lot of micro scratching and it did not work well. Something different about the clear coat on that car. The denim pad would grab and jump and even when I could hold it steady for a while, it didn't polish well.

It does take some practice to polish with a denim pad on a rotary. You have to be very conscious about holding it perfectly flat on the surface while keeping the pressure relatively light. Otherwise it can jump around on you and damage the edges of the pad. Speed is important. I use between 900 and 1300 and check for heat often. It can definitely build some heat but it will burn the compound before it damages the paint. I've never damaged paint with the process but have burned the compound a couple of times and it's hard to get off if that happens.

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Old 07-14-2022, 02:00 PM
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Excellent write up Roger, thank you very much.

I've watched a few videos of the denim pads in the past, will have to revisit them. You've given me much to think about. Thanks again for writing all this up and posting the pics.

How many of the denim pads would you suggest for doing an entire car, with what I would call ... slightly more than OEM peel?

And ... in my case I have random garbage in the paint that needs to be leveled, will this still require wet sanding. BTW, I'm not averse to wet sanding, don't mind it at all, just looking for more options.

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  #744  
Old 07-14-2022, 06:36 PM
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It would be good if you don't have to go to anything more coarse than 1000 with your color sanding. Also, I've always stuck to color sanding by hand with the old 3M rubber blocks. Other than way back when I tried the 3M Trizact several years ago, I've never had the nerve to try color sanding with a D/A with coarser paper but I know it's done.

Denim pads last a long time if you treat them right. I can do a whole car with 1 or 2. You might not get that life out of them as you are getting a feel for how to use them. Do you have a rotary with a soft start and a variable rpm knob? You need one with those features with these pads. You also want to use one with a side handle at the front rather than a top bar.
You can get these pads in both 5 1/4" and 3". I rarely use the 3" ones but have tried them. If there's an area where I need to polish that I can't get to with the 5 1/4" pad, I most likely can't with a 3" pad either since they should only be used flat. So, I switch to a wool bonnet and do it the old fashion way. The Menzerna 400 works well on those too so I use that instead of the old 3M products.

Since you can't find hook and loop backing pads for a rotary in 5 1/4". I bought a 5 1/2" one and shaved the edge down to 5 1/4" by spinning it and holding sandpaper on the edge. I just noticed that the CarPro website says the pads are 5 1/2". Maybe they've changed them since I bought them last.

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  #745  
Old 07-15-2022, 01:50 AM
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I was hoping to use my Porta-Cable ... but I don't think it's a "rotary" .. it's the random orbital type ... not very aggressive but leaves a wonderful finish. I'm guessing the way it operates would not be great for leveling peel since it wouldn't take much advantage of a smooth pad surface skimming the tops of the peel.

Ordered a big bottle of the Menzerna 400, I see that some are using it with a dual action successfully, will also order some of the denim pads ... kind of a slow transition to a new system.

Don't want to hijack your thread ... this topic could easily fill numerous pages of it's own topic.

Thanks again.

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  #746  
Old 07-15-2022, 08:04 PM
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I was hoping to use my Porta-Cable ... but I don't think it's a "rotary" .. it's the random orbital type ... not very aggressive but leaves a wonderful finish. I'm guessing the way it operates would not be great for leveling peel since it wouldn't take much advantage of a smooth pad surface skimming the tops of the peel.
Ordered a big bottle of the Menzerna 400, I see that some are using it with a dual action successfully, will also order some of the denim pads ... kind of a slow transition to a new system.
Don't want to hijack your thread ... this topic could easily fill numerous pages of it's own topic.
Thanks again.
No worries. I was planning on writing an explanation of my polishing process later anyway. I'm probably still at least a month away from getting started on it. I'll probably start getting all my stainless corrected and polished first and that is going to take a while.

Nothing says you can't use the denim pads with an orbital but I don't know if they can do as good of job leveling or not. To give the pads a fair evaluation, you should probably get your hands on a rotary to at least try so you can see for yourself how an orbital matches up. Also note that the orbital you have is not a long throw either and that could make some difference as well.
The Menzerna 400 will work well with anything. I even use it with by hand with a towel sometimes.

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  #747  
Old 07-20-2022, 05:27 AM
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Your right about my orbital, it's slow .. does a fine job, but takes forever doing it. I'm really liking the Menserna 400 ... basically takes it from a wet sanded condition to almost final polish without changing product. Also using the denium pad, works well, only downside is it needs to be cleaned a LOT if taking off a lot of clear ... I've found scraping it with a sharp kitchen knife clears it off enough for another go.

Couple of questions ... how dry to you run your pad? I'm finding the 400 seems to work better on the dry side, drier than anything else I've used. As a kid in a body shop we slopped on the compound with a rag on a stick out of a bucket ... things have changed?

I'm finding I have to press pretty hard on the oribital to get results .... again learned on a rotary with a giant wool pad when I lived in fear of ruining the bosses paint job by burning through. I'm guessing this is just a result of using an orbital?

Thanks

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Old 07-20-2022, 07:17 AM
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I was afraid it would be pretty slow as you describe using a standard throw orbital. Since the denim pads are supposed to be used with a rotary, I never tried one one on my orbital.
I really like my Dewalt polisher for the denim pads. Here's a pretty good deal:
https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWP849.../dp/B004W1WGIC

Even if this is the last car you ever paint, I think this would be a good investment. You can do paint correction on your everyday cars with it. The denim pads work great for polishing out bird poop etching, acid rain spots and things like that.
Some say the polisher is heavy. I don't find it heavy for me at all to use. I think it might even be an advantage with denim pads. One thing that can happen while getting used to controlling it is that the pad can start jumping around on you. Once you master how to grip it and keep it flat, it won't do that anymore. If it does jump, back off and start again making sure the pad is flat on the panel before you pull the trigger. The soft start really helps with this too.

Since you are getting so much gumming up, it sounds like you might be applying a bit too much compound. It does need to be run almost until it's totally dry. I'd say maximum cutting comes when it first starts to dry out and diminishes as it gets more dry. As it drys, it can build up heat faster too and why it is necessary to check for heat by touching the panel with your hand. I also try to polish about a 2 sqft area at a time. If you work a smaller area, it will heat up faster. I don't get a lot of gum build up like you are describing but I do get a little and check and scrape off with my fingernail if needed between iterations.

After an initial priming of the pad and running the first pass, I re-apply about 5 spots of compound on the pad to start the next pass with. I usually do the first pass on an area at about 1000 rpm and up it to 1200 for the second application pass and a third if it's needed.

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Old 07-20-2022, 12:26 PM
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After my first pass I'm only using about two dots on the pad, so I'm going pretty dry. I think the orbital action tends to work the compound into the grooves of the denium causing it to load up rather than rotary which may tend to drag it out of the grooves. I'm getting that glossy layer on the pad.

Almost pulled the trigger on the DeWalt last night .. jeez, one of the highest rated products I've ever seen on Amazon. I'm still kind of feeling like I'd rather go slow and have about zero chance of burning through the clear with the oribital. I tried convincing myself I'd use the DeWalt on other products ... but who am I kidding, I've washed my 10 year old truck about three times, and I wouldn't touch the wife's BMW

Wish the Porta-Cable had an orbital lock out so it could be used as a small rotary. If I get tired enough of the work the DeWalt will be in the cards.

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Old 07-25-2022, 12:37 PM
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Carpet:
I was given the factory original jute underpadding with the purchase of the car. Bought a roll of underpadding from Legendary and cut it using the original for a template. Here it is installed. Used some carpet tape to hold it down along the sides and in the corners.



I was also given a new but old set of replacement carpet with the purchase and had intended on using it. But upon placing in the car it looked dark blue to me rather than black. I figured it had to do with the fact it had been stored for a number of years and the dye shifted. It probably didn't help that I stored it away in my attic for 2 summers.



Ordered a new set of carpet and moved on to restoring stainless while I waited it to arrive.
I have a 1 hp buffer that uses 10" wheels and I use the Eastwood products and the 3 step polishing system that they recommend for stainless.
The 3 steps are pretty simple. First is on a sisal wheel using emory compound, second is on a sewn wheel with stainless compound and third is on a loose wheel with white rouge compound. Normally, it looks pretty good after the second step but the 3 step adds a bit more brilliance. I've restored a lot of stainless over the years using this process and it's always done a nice job for me.



Started with the windshield post moldings. They had some dings and I got them removed. I had trouble polishing them though. I've never encountered a problem like this before. First, I noticed the sisal pad couldn't remove the 400 grit scratches. So I went back and sanded them with 600 and then back to the sisal pad. It still took a lot of time to remove even the 600 scratches. When I finally seemed that I had, I moved over to the sewn wheel for step 2 and it wouldn't remove the finish the sisal wheel left.



This is not acceptable and I don't know what to do about it at this point and need to do more research. Anybody here ever seen a problem like this before?
For now I put them aside and decided to do some tests on a few other stainless items. Here's one of the inner windshield post moldings after step 2. No problems there:



I then moved on to what I thought might be the hardest ding to remove. It's on the left half of the surround molding on the body edge at the bottom rear of the convertible top. A very sharp ding at the edge with limited access on the bottom side.



It look me and entire afternoon to smooth this area out. Several iterations of hammering and filing. I had to hammer some against a hard surface and some on the leather bag. For a file I use a short piece of paint mixing stick with the sticky backed 3M sandpaper either with 120 grit or 180. I also use an black marker for a guide coat. Once it's flat, I sand with 220, 320 and 400. I go to 600 if I want to save a little time on the sisal wheel. Here's a photo of it sanded out to 400:



I then test polished this 6" section going through all 3 steps. No problems with this either. It appears the only problem stainless I will encounter is the outer w/s post moldings.



Got some good news this past week. I visited with my interior shop guy and he said he will be able to start on the upholstery of my seats soon. Also called Legendary and they said the door panels I've had on order since last December would be done very soon. So, I put the stainless aside for now and shifted focus to getting other things ready for the interior.
The padded w/s post trim pieces and kick panels I received with the car were all in excellent condition and just needed a coat of vinyl paint (Duplicolor flat black) to freshen them up. I also media blasted the metal w/s frame molding pieces and painted with Duplicolor semi gloss engine enamel.



The center console I received with the car was also in very good condition and a coat of vinyl paint made it look brand new. I had purchased a new arm rest/compartment lid from Legendary a while back and installed that too. I had to do some modification where the hinge attaches on to it to make it fit well and was a bit time consuming but it does fit well now. Installed new inserts on the 2 original plates.





Received the new carpet I bought from StockInteriors.com. It is made by ACC which I guess is what you are going to get no matter who you order it from. Ordered it without attached jute underpadding since it wasn't needed.
It took me a few days to install the carpet, kick panels and console and I'm happy with how it all came out.











Also installed the shifter indicator that came with my Shiftworks conversion kit. Seems to look nice. The stock light bulb was too bright for it so I used a black marker on it to darken it down. The shift knob I got with the car was a bit worn so I bought a new one along with a new button.

I was given a set of coupe seat belts with the purchase of the car. They were in very nice condition. However, I didn't realize until now that the retractor for the driver side didn't work. I took it apart and there is a plastic barrel that holds the spring and it came out in pieces. Not sure what to do about this yet. Ideas?


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Old 07-25-2022, 12:51 PM
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Recently rebuilt my retractors. Couldn't just buy a used retractor or two and scavenge parts? I found it a pretty freakin tedious job getting them back together and getting that metal clip back on.

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Old 07-25-2022, 01:20 PM
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Recently rebuilt my retractors. Couldn't just buy a used retractor or two and scavenge parts? I found it a pretty freakin tedious job getting them back together and getting that metal clip back on.
I thought about that possibility. What I worried about is buying a working used retractor but wondered about whether the plastic piece could be cracked or brittle and taking it apart would cause it to break or not. Do you think that is a concern?

Edit:
Just got off the phone with Paul. I'm going to buy a used retractor from him and see if I can extract the plastic cylinder to use for my assembly.

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2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
'55 Chevy Bel Air Sport Coupe - Ram Jet 350 / T56 Magnum 6spd, Restomod Completed Sept. 2012, Sold Sept. 2021 PHOTO

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Old 07-25-2022, 04:46 PM
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Both my originals came apart without damage other than one sleeve that already had a small piece missing.

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  #754  
Old 07-25-2022, 05:09 PM
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Incredible job getting that ding out of the pinchweld molding.
If there's one thing I really suck at its trimming carpet. Great job on that too.

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  #755  
Old 07-26-2022, 09:41 AM
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Yep I usually start out with great dreams of a precision carpet install, as each hour goes by my expectation get lower and lower

Roger, are you going to put the seat rails on top of the carpet, or slice some tabs later?

And I would have been reaching for the credit card if I had a piece of trim like that. BTW, I think I have a full set of 68 front pillar trim for a convertible if needed, not sure if 69 is the same.

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Old 07-26-2022, 09:51 AM
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Wow, fixing that dent is impressive.

How do you hold the trim when you polish? I could see it flying across the room if I tried that...

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Old 07-26-2022, 10:40 AM
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Wow, fixing that dent is impressive.

How do you hold the trim when you polish? I could see it flying across the room if I tried that...
Which is why I polish my trim outside. I can't remember how many times I've shot a piece or two across the back porch.

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Old 07-26-2022, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webfoot View Post
Incredible job getting that ding out of the pinchweld molding.
If there's one thing I really suck at its trimming carpet. Great job on that too.
Thanks!
I'm not the best at installing carpet either. Definitely hard to not make any mistakes. I made a couple with this too but it's acceptable. One nice thing is that it's pretty forgiving. Once the seats are in the car, it's hard to see anything that isn't perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
Wow, fixing that dent is impressive.

How do you hold the trim when you polish? I could see it flying across the room if I tried that...
Thanks! Sometimes I surprise myself by fixing a piece of trim that I thought might be unrestorable before the attempt. I thought I could probably get this one but I was concerned about filing through the piece with all I had to do around that one spot.

You definitely have to have your thinking cap on when polishing trim. Never take your eyes off or ever stop thinking about the angle you need to keep it from grabbing an edge. All of us who have used a polisher have had it grab and throw at one time or another. I've done enough of this not to have it happen much anymore. It is important to wear gloves, face shield and an N95 mask at all times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
Yep I usually start out with great dreams of a precision carpet install, as each hour goes by my expectation get lower and lower
Roger, are you going to put the seat rails on top of the carpet, or slice some tabs later?
And I would have been reaching for the credit card if I had a piece of trim like that. BTW, I think I have a full set of 68 front pillar trim for a convertible if needed, not sure if 69 is the same.
A guy on the gtoforum pointed out to me yesterday that the seat rail feet are supposed to go under the carpet. I didn't know that. I guess what I will do go ahead and make the slices before putting the seats in and then glue a small piece of carpet underneath to try and make the holes not show. Are the rear feet supposed to go underneath the carpet too? I'm not as concerned with those. The seats will probably always be as far back as they will go.

Not sure if the '68 pillar trim pieces are the same or not but I'll look into that. Do you polish your own stainless trim?
I think I might start a separate thread about my polishing dilemma with these pieces and see if anyone has seen this and what they did about it.
I've never seen stainless behave this way. There's definitely something different about the compound they are made from.

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Last edited by roger1; 07-26-2022 at 10:55 AM.
  #759  
Old 07-26-2022, 11:24 AM
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Shiny Shiny is offline
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I want to borrow YOUR thinking cap!

Here is a guide I followed when I installed carpet. May be fake news, but it worked for me. If you want the truth, reach out to rambow on this forum. He may have sent me this guide but if not, he'll know how the factory did this.

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  #760  
Old 07-26-2022, 12:49 PM
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webfoot webfoot is offline
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If you can't salvage that A-pillar stainless trim I have an extra in my garage.

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1968 GTO 4-spd convertible, console, factory gauges, hidden headlights, 3.90:1 posi, AM/FM radio.

1962 Catalina convertible, Starlight black w maroon interior & white top.
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