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Old 07-15-2022, 11:41 AM
jwhit jwhit is offline
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Default 400 cam help please

building street/weekend toy
400 bored .030 with speedpro dome pistons 10cc dome
6x-4 heads 96cc this should get me around 9.5 comp ratio
im stuck on what cam to go with i love the sound of the ram4 041 cam
so i trying to decide do i use the 041 or the lunati 703 or open for better choice
just want to stay under .500 lift
car has auto tranny with 2500 stall and will have 3.55 gears soon

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Old 07-15-2022, 11:52 AM
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Both excellent choices. I run a very similar mill. I went with the XE-274 this round. I can’t strongly recommend enough teaming your combo up with some Rhoads Oil Groove Lifters and that thing will be nasty, right out of the hole and pull your head against the back glass through the mid-range. And don’t over exhaust it. Get to know your local tire guys. You’ll need ‘em. LOL!


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Old 07-15-2022, 12:01 PM
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I have had good luck with a cam like a Summit 2802 (224 234 .465 .488 114) in 400's up around 9.5-10:1 compression and 3:55 gears. It will idle with a slight loap but still have plenty of low end torque. A lunati 703 would work well also. I ran that camshaft in a 10:1 428 and it ran strong with a slight loap. Both of those camshafts will like the 2500 stall/3:55 combination. An 041 will sound great and run decent but will have less low end power than both the 2802 summit and 703 lunati cams. It really could use 10:1 compression minimum and a lower gear than what you currently have.

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Old 07-15-2022, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Milner View Post
I have had good luck with a cam like a Summit 2802 (224 234 .465 .488 114) in 400's up around 9.5-10:1 compression and 3:55 gears. It will idle with a slight loap but still have plenty of low end torque. A lunati 703 would work well also. I ran that camshaft in a 10:1 428 and it ran strong with a slight loap. Both of those camshafts will like the 2500 stall/3:55 combination. An 041 will sound great and run decent but will have less low end power than both the 2802 summit and 703 lunati cams. It really could use 10:1 compression minimum and a lower gear than what you currently have.
i considered the 2802 cam from summitt i just wasnt sure it would have that lopey cam sound like the 2821(041) am i hurting mysel badly going with 041 to get the sound over the other cams ? also i didnt note this but im running sniper efi on single plane intake

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Old 07-15-2022, 01:28 PM
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The 041 was only avail from the factory with 3.90-4.10 gears for a reason.In a 400 it kills low end.2802 would be better.Tom

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Old 07-15-2022, 02:07 PM
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Another up vote for the 2802, good cam for a 400 if you have enough compression.

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Old 07-15-2022, 02:32 PM
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Our '65 421 (actual 338ci) had a 2802 cam up to about 15 years ago. Went with the Crower 60919 which is their replacement for the 041 cam. The Crower sounded a little better at idle but lost over a mile per gallon and a tenth in the quarter. The good news is many thousands of miles later the Crower cam is holding up fine.

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Old 07-15-2022, 02:52 PM
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Maybe look into Bullet/Ultradyne.

Tim Goolsby recommended the following spec'd cam (hydraulic flat tappet cam (221 intake/230 exhaust @ 0.50″ with .454 lift intake/exhaust & 112 LSA) that conservatively produced 403/482 on my 30 over 400.

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Old 07-15-2022, 04:44 PM
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I have the Summit 2801 in the low compression 400 in the 81 TA -pretty mild.

I do like Ultradynes old lobes their 280/288 on a 112 would be good. I ran the 288/296 on a 108 in my RAIV 400.

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Old 07-15-2022, 04:59 PM
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Great street performance. Mild lope, 2800 converter a plus.

UltraDyne 280/288

http://web.archive.org/web/200303250..._camshafts.htm

Call Tim at Bullet if you fell it necessary to have it ground with a 112 LSA.

https://www.bulletcams.com/Masters/u...nemasters.html


.

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Old 07-16-2022, 06:48 AM
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"The 041 was only avail from the factory with 3.90-4.10 gears for a reason"

.......and those engines had a LOT more compression.

You don' t have enough compression to effectively use a cam with over 80 degrees of overlap. The engine will be "lazy" with the RAIV cam in it at 9.5 to 1. I'd go with something with about 10-15 degrees less duration. The Crower 60916 (221/229/112) would be a good choice, or something close to it.......

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Old 07-16-2022, 08:38 AM
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Exactly what I have found Cliff, and by trail and error which is not easy on the wallet even 30 years ago!

In light of this I would by far much sooner run slightly too small of a cam and louder noisy mufflers to get the auditory excitement I was craving like the OP has for a requirement!

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Old 07-16-2022, 10:56 AM
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With the single plane intake, sniper and desiring a bit of a rough idle I think you would like a cam similar to the 703 Lunati or the Crower 60243 (size smaller than the 60919) over all the cams mentioned.

My favorite series HFT cams though that I would use if it were my car with a HFT cam is the Bullet 280/288, with the LSA 110, 232*, 240*, .5” lift on both intake and exhaust with 1.5 rockers. It is not the smaller 280,288 mentioned earlier (which is rated at .0045” tappet). It is a later version (very similar to the voodoo series cams, Harold Brookshire designed both) 280, 288 at .006” tappet. It is ground almost identical to the Lunati voodoo series cams but Harold picked the lifts instead of Lunati’ sales reps, and has the same lift on both valves. In a 400 for as big as it is it has good bottom end power. I haven’t found a HFT cam better that it on the street, I have went step above the 280/288 in a 400 with Rhoads v pro super lube lifters, ported 62s heads (250 cfm) and 1.65 HS rocker and headers. Right around .56” lift with that combination, 283/291, 235/243@.050”, 110 LSA.. I had it ground +6 on the advance. It is the closest HFT cam I have found that has Hydraulic roller cam performance with a Hydraulic flat tappet cam. Tim at Bullet was the contact for all those Bullet cams.

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Old 07-18-2022, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay S View Post
With the single plane intake, sniper and desiring a bit of a rough idle I think you would like a cam similar to the 703 Lunati or the Crower 60243 (size smaller than the 60919) over all the cams mentioned.

My favorite series HFT cams though that I would use if it were my car with a HFT cam is the Bullet 280/288, with the LSA 110, 232*, 240*, .5” lift on both intake and exhaust with 1.5 rockers. It is not the smaller 280,288 mentioned earlier (which is rated at .0045” tappet). It is a later version (very similar to the voodoo series cams, Harold Brookshire designed both) 280, 288 at .006” tappet. It is ground almost identical to the Lunati voodoo series cams but Harold picked the lifts instead of Lunati’ sales reps, and has the same lift on both valves. In a 400 for as big as it is it has good bottom end power. I haven’t found a HFT cam better that it on the street, I have went step above the 280/288 in a 400 with Rhoads v pro super lube lifters, ported 62s heads (250 cfm) and 1.65 HS rocker and headers. Right around .56” lift with that combination, 283/291, 235/243@.050”, 110 LSA.. I had it ground +6 on the advance. It is the closest HFT cam I have found that has Hydraulic roller cam performance with a Hydraulic flat tappet cam. Tim at Bullet was the contact for all those Bullet cams.
i think my sniper efi is going to want 112 or higher lsa thats why i was looking at the 2802 and 2821 summit cams also want to keep lift under .490 since i already have new springs that went with lunati voodo 701 cam .470 lift

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Old 07-18-2022, 09:42 AM
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Presuming Tim has the cores on hand he can grind the cam with any lobe separation desired using UltraDyne lobes.


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Old 07-18-2022, 12:56 PM
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The 2802 has .488” lift on the exhaust. You should check or figure out what your coil bind is on the springs you have, and how they are set up. I suppose it is possible you might not have room for much more lift than .49”.

The factory rockers do not run at 1.5 either, more like 1.48, you may have more room than you realize if you still have stock rocker arms.

If your worried about the sniper managing a big cam the 2822 is the worst choice of all the cams that have been mentioned. Very Rough idle.


For the LSA’s, your comparing apples and oranges. Ultradyne and Lunati Voodoo are assymetrical grinds, opening on the cam is more aggressive than the closing. The summits mentioned are symmetrical. Crower are symmetrical too. Widening a Ultradyne or Voodoo out to 112 makes them act like one of those symmetrical cams on 114, but with a smoother idle. 112 LSA version of a 703 in a 400 with mid 9s compression will have a pretty smooth idle. I have done the Ultradynes on 110, 112, and 114. The idle smooths out pretty drastically when they are wider.


Last edited by Jay S; 07-18-2022 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 07-18-2022, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay S View Post
The 2802 has .488” lift on the exhaust. You should check or figure out what your coil bind is on the springs you have, and how they are set up. I suppose it is possible you might not have room for much more lift than .49”.

The factory rockers do not run at 1.5 either, more like 1.48, you may have more room than you realize if you still have stock rocker arms.

If your worried about the sniper managing a big cam the 2822 is the worst choice of all the cams that have been mentioned. Very Rough idle.


For the LSA’s, your comparing apples and oranges. Ultradyne and Lunati Voodoo are assymetrical grinds, opening on the cam is more aggressive than the closing. The summits mentioned are symmetrical. Crower are symmetrical too. Widening a Ultradyne or Voodoo out to 112 makes them act like one of those symmetrical cams on 114, but with a smoother idle. 112 LSA version of a 703 in a 400 with mid 9s compression will have a pretty smooth idle. I have done the Ultradynes on 110, 112, and 114. The idle smooths out pretty drastically when they are wider.
the lunati springs i have should be good for .500 lift with the 701 cam i have its .469 lift and i got about .090 left before coil bind nothing is stock it has differnt retainers and locks also using roller rockers i think they were procomps
what do you feel would be best off the shelf cam for the money and just street car no racing i was hoping to get the ram 4 sound and since it had 114 lsa i thought it would work with sniper but im not that smart about these issues
the lunati voodoo 703 is still on short list but i have ruled out the crower 243 cam i had looked at. since this is low budget build i dont think i can afford a custom ground cam maybe leaning back to summitt2802 when i use the number on desk top dyno it gets me 393hp @5000 and 433 ft lbs @4500 also voodoo 702 numbers dont look bad 385hp @5000 and 440 ftlbs @ 4000 im just not sure the 702 will give a choppy idle
im sure the numbers vary when its in real motor combo but it does give me
a look to compare cams


Last edited by jwhit; 07-18-2022 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 07-18-2022, 02:37 PM
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Off the shelf cams…Best bang for the buck, not the most powerful, but very good, IMHO is the summit 2802.

If you want a little rougher idle and still have decent street manors, with more top end power than the 2802, that describes the Crower 60243. Personally I would pick it over the 2802.

The 703 Lunati will be fairly comparable to the Crower 60243 for street manors. The 703 will have a stronger and broader mid range, and in my opinion the most fun to drive, strongest power everywhere for something off the self……

But for overall pump gas tolerance, with those domed pistons, needing a little smoother power for the sniper…. I would pick Crower 60243 over the 703. All three of those choices are outstanding cams in 400s.

To mimic the top end power of the Lunati 703 on the computer program I think you will have to retard it 4* (110)on your program. If you want to see how it compares on tq try 106. I have found that represents more how it is ground. The computer program sees it as a symmetrical profile, and will not represent the top end the voodoo and Ultradyne cams have very well..


Last edited by Jay S; 07-18-2022 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 07-18-2022, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
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The 703 Lunati will be fairly comparable to the Crower 60243 for street manors. The 703 will have a stronger and broader mid range, and in my opinion the most fun to drive, strongest power everywhere for something off the self……
This...^^^

I use the 703 in a 4spd. 400 and love it, no sniper, stock #16's, Holley, HSD and Hookers.

Not mine but similar sound hear... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_RmgPVNwMI



Frank

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Old 07-18-2022, 05:09 PM
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I run a Crower 60242 in my 400 with 9.6 CR. A little lope. It was kind of a toss up if I wanted to run the 60242 or 60243, as my car is a stick.
That’s the engine in my signature. Don’t pay too much attention to the 13.9 track time, I granny shift because it’s still the original transmission. The 102 MPH is the better indicator of its performance.
Video of idle and getting on it-

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/OLj_dTEcPmI

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