[Maniac]

Been having a little bit of trouble getting my timing chain setup correctly. I have a 69' 400. My Chilton's manual shows that the timing marks are lined up so that they are closest to each other. Yet when I do this no compression is created so obviously it is on backwards. Are the dots suppose to be situated so that both are facing upwards? I tried doing this but must have gotten the links misaligned because the exhaust ports are sucking in air instead of pushing out. I've been testing to find the right alignment with just using the starter and remote starter control but can't find it. Can one of you guys guide me through this and point out where I'm making my mistake?

Thanks

[Maniac]

Been having a little bit of trouble getting my timing chain setup correctly. I have a 69' 400. My Chilton's manual shows that the timing marks are lined up so that they are closest to each other. Yet when I do this no compression is created so obviously it is on backwards. Are the dots suppose to be situated so that both are facing upwards? I tried doing this but must have gotten the links misaligned because the exhaust ports are sucking in air instead of pushing out. I've been testing to find the right alignment with just using the starter and remote starter control but can't find it. Can one of you guys guide me through this and point out where I'm making my mistake?

Thanks

[Ken K]

There should be a dot or an arrrow on both the cam timing gear and the crank gear. You should have the crank gear dot facing strait up and the cam gear dot facing down, both the dots should line up if not then you may have the timing chain off a tooth or two.

[Triggerman]

Maniac, if you have one of the timing chain sets with multiple keyways and multiple markings...make sure you are aligning the proper matched pair of markings. Also a high overlap cam combined with open headers could exhibit some reversion at the ends of the collectors during cranking. Have you tried to start this thing or are you just troubleshooting something you think may be wrong? TM

[Maniac]

To start off I have the Summit Brand Standard Timing chain. It says it has 3 key settings 4 degrees advanced, 4 degrees retarded or standard. I don't know how to differentiate between the 3 so I could use some help there. As far as what I'm trying to accomplish, Ed Neasham was kind enough to let me borrow an engine test stand that he built. My 400 is built minus the timing chain cover and timing chain, but everything else is hooked up except the exhaust. I had rebuilt the 400 last year but being a novice I didn't replace the shot piston rings. Thus it smoked like a SOB and was not drivable with all that smoke coming in the driver compartment. I have other means of transportation so I pulled the 400 and had it bored and the parts balanced and a remachined crank put in it. I've put it back together with my friend to it's current state. Last time we pulled it apart and rebuilt it we had problems aligning the timing chain since the one we tried in my Chilton's gave me a 180degree oposite of what I needed, so I ended up spending money on more gaskets everytime we had to pull the damn timing chain cover off to try a new setting. The instrument panel that is on Ed's stand has a toggle switch for the starter so I'm turning the engine over and feeling the exhaust ports on the heads (no manifolds on at this moment) and it is sucking in air. When we've come close to what we feel is an accurate timing we've poured some gas in the carb and tried to see if we could get any of the cylinders to fire momentarily. Nothing is happening and I'm sure it is because the timing is off and compression is low so the fuel is not combusting. From what I've read in the Chilton's and some other engine building books I have, the setup of the timing chain is simple as pie. Obviously not for me though lol.


[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 06-12-2000).]

[Maniac]

I'm unable to run headers on the stand due to how it was constructed, so i'm going to use some manifolds. My cam is pretty mild so I really don't know. I know the firing order is correct and all of the plugs have spark and correct gapping. Do I need to have the #1 cylinder at TDC when I set the timing?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Start from the beginning, again. First the Cam gear dot faces at 6 o/clock. the crank gear at 12 o/clock. This puts you at # 6 on the firing order. Whenever installing the bottom gear, ALWAYS make sure the #1 piston is at top dead center, then look at he timing mark on the crank gear. Some times there is a smaller mark that is the manufactures insignia on the gear and confuses the installer as the maybe this was the mark. Also, If it is a three keyway, Use the same mark as the key slot. + to+ ,- to - and dot to dot. or Square to square, triangle to triangle. Remember if you ALWAYS have the #1 piston ALL the way up at Top dead center, It's highly unlikely to make a mistake. If the heads are on then look down the plug hole or even put the cover on with two bolts and just set the balancer on and install with the timing groove on the damper in line with 0 on the tap, slip it off All should be at TDC. Later. http://sites.netscape.net/pontiacdude428/homepage ----------------------------------------- Mommmmmmmm, Can you get me some Cheesy Poofs, Mommmmmmmmmmmm.

[george kujanski]

Maniac, install the gears as Dude said, crank at 12:00 and cam at 6:00. It is easier to line them up this way. The engine will be at firing point for #6 cylinder. To get the engine at firing mark for #1, rotate the engine 1 revolution after the chain is installed. This will put the crank mark at 12:00 again, but the cam mark will now be at 12:00. (The cam rotates once for every 2 crank rotations). Once you have the engine set to fire on #1, then install the distributor to fire on #1 also. Hope this clarifies it further.

Regards, George

[Triggerman]

Also, do not fire the engine up without the exhaust manifolds attached. Even with them attached, you take the chance of burning a valve if you do not have enough pipe extention to keep the cool air from being pulled up the exhaust port and hitting the backside of a hot exhaust valve. Bolt up a 20" or so piece of exhaust tubing to the end of those manifolds to be safe. TM

[Blackcat]

Maniac,
Don't rule out the possibility that they Misstamped the gears. I had a set and the car would never run right. I tried all of the correct marks and the engine would barely run. After 5 tries I gave up and purchased a Cloys roller set with only the two dots. One on each gear. The engine ran fantastic. Summit purchases their store brand from who knows where. I had a new timing set brake after 2000 miles taking out 4 valves. I have Never had a set brake before. This was in a stock engine.