[TempestFugit]

What are the chances that it'll be OK? - Water Pump

I've been bringing a barn fresh Tempest (4cyl) back to life gradually over the past few weeks. engine wouldn't run... (points stuck) car wouldn't stop... (rebuilt/replaced brakes, master cylinder brake-lines) muffler rusted out & full of mice nests... Gas tank & lines removed & checked.

The first time I fired it up it blew coolant out of just about every place you would expect, heater core (replaced) hoses thermostat housing and water pump.

after running it around locally the last few days the water pump seems to have pretty much fixed itself... I get a few drops out of it on startup but then it stops

Any guesses on it's prognosis? think it'll continue like that? seal back up & be OK? or Blow like a geyser at any moment?

I've been using it 10 - 20 miles at a time and after those first few drops seems fine, but do you think I'd be pushing my luck to go any more than that.

[mechanickeith]

Thats pushing it!! bet it had some rust or something in the porceline seal area. May last a bit but I would get one on order because your going to need it!

[cleveweld]

Carl, It might not leak that much right now, but it probably will. Here are a couple links to 63 Tempest 4 cyl. water pumps. Also spotted a couple of NOS 63 dust shields, good price. In the last link, seller has 2 NOS 61-63 4 cyl. puel pumps for $28 each. I try to be pro-active and keep spare parts on the shelf so that I don't have start searching when something goes.
From my experience, things don't fix themselves and only get worse. Greg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380177644443

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140487190847

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120889541031

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330708731294

[63Banshee]

It won't fix itself and you will get tired of high temps and adding water.

[mechanickeith]

4 or 8 bolt pump??

[TempestFugit]

Keith, 4 Bolt.

(Thanks Greg)

I figured it's a matter of time but don't feel like doing it right now, but because it's been sitting I was thinking maybe it was just a dry seal that was expanding back into service with heat & use.

[63Banshee]

Maybe... I just went through this. Changed the pump last night.

[TempestFugit]

I just re-read Keith's dissertation on four-bolt pumps.
(http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=603327)

Has any source been found for 4cyl 4bolt pumps? I see the V8 4bolt pump listed in the Tempest parts catalog. Are they still available at NAPA too?

I have a couple of used pumps with correct impellers. I guess I can press off the V8 and replace it if I can't find the correct one. I think (hope) the one I have will hold out till I can sort this all out.

[mechanickeith]

WOW!!!! I have a dissertation!!!

Only available by sending your correct pump out for O/H. Or find an NOS one somewhere. Only 8 cyl 4 bolt pumps available from NAPA.

I did an emergency repair once. I had a leaking pump with no replacement on hand. I tapped threads & plugged the weep hole & left the radiator cap loose so it wouldnt build pressure in the system. Ran it that way for several months. As long as the bearings are good & the shaft seal on the front of the pump is good, it will work. I just stayed in town to & from work, no out of town highway miles.

[TempestFugit]

Keith to swap the impeller do you press the impeller off the shaft or do you press off the other end (fan mount) and somehow pull the shaft with impeller attached out?

[mechanickeith]

What I did was measure how far the pump shaft sticks through the threaded fan hub, press off the hub, then press the shaft With impeller out of the pump. I then used the old shaft & impeller in the new pump with the new seals. Then press the fan hub back on. Takes more work but I didnt want to take the chance of breaking the cast impeller. When installing pump, bolt it on without a gasket & make sure the impeller doesnt hit the timing cover. If its ok, add the gasket & run it!

[TempestFugit]

Yeah the impeller looks to be really tacked on there. That sounds like a better plan. Thanks.

[63Banshee]

What's keeping you from using a v8 pump? If you want to swich to 195 8 bolt let me now. I have an nos pump and used cover.

[mechanickeith]

Only thing wrong with it is the loss of power from the pump trying to pump water to a side of a motor that is not there.

[63Banshee]

My calculations show a V8 pump takes .022 brake/.025 total hp more than a slant 4 pump to spin in the same engine. This was done with very conservative pump and drive efficiency figures and aggressive pressure and flow rate figures.

[mechanickeith]

I know its not much loss,, but Pontiac engineers figured it was enough to warrent its own impeller. I never had any problems running a V8 pump in my 4 cyl's.

[GaryK]

Hi CAP, the last thing I want to worry about is having a part fail while driving one of my Tempests. I had 2 water pumps rebuilt by Robert Wolf. I met him at the POCI convention in 2010 and see him at the Englishtown and Carlisle swap meets all the time. Great guy and he does nice work. Sand blasts everything clean, new bearings and seals and gasket for $75.
Gary

[63Banshee]

saved

[TempestFugit]

Thanks for the input guys. Dave, thanks for the offer. I have 8 bolts & cover from some of the other engines, but at this point I'm going to keep the car as delivered (as much as I can). Including the original paint, rust, oops I mean PATINA! dents, scratches and line-stamps. It's a four-door driver and survived this long in original condition & I like it the way it is.

I think I'll pick up a v8 pump for an emergency spare and keep an eye on the drip while I get the original rebuilt. After that, if I don't need the 8pump for my 326 I might do the impeller swap just for the fun of it.

[Peter Serio]

Once a car sits for a long time, everything dries out. After adding fluid (antifreeze) the seals are never going to fully rejuvenate themselves.

The water-pump should be rebuilt or replaced.