[Greg Reid]

No, not at all specific on one type of head vs another... unless I missed it.. I really would like to do it on the 16 heads on my '68 but that car is in use and porting the heads isn't enough of a reason to tear it apart.

[Sirrotica]

Greg, unless you want to keep the 093 heads for originality, you might be better to get a set of late model heads with the screw in studs already in them, and the larger valves. The ports in the late heads are better than early heads, plus the valve angle helps breathing. I've used the late heads on 389 blocks before just for those reasons.

Only problem is the 389 pistons have the wrong valve reliefs cut into them, but if you keep the lift under .450 it will still work on a 389.

Just thought I'd throw that out there as an alternative to the 093 heads.

If you do port them, you want to do it before you grind the seats, if you inadvertantly touch a seat while porting them, then it can be repaired.

I ported my 5C heads for my street 455 myself just looking at some pictures in different publications, no access to a flow bench. Are they the best, probably not, but they're deffinitely better than stock 5C heads are.

[Greg Reid]

Brad, I do want to run the original 389 heads in spite of the shortcomings. Nostalgia thing ...This was a complete running '66 GTO engine pulled from a rusted out '65 GTO in a field. A can of gas and a battery it cranked right up and the choke even worked. I had a machinist friend clean it up and put cam bearings, rear main seal, etc.

[P@blo]

I picked up a pair of 250cfm 670s that were built by Butler. Brought them to my machinist and had had him do a valve job, new bronze guides and seals. All in cost me $1600 Canadian and avoided the cost of new headers head bolts ect.

I weighed the option of speedmaster but would be close to double and did not want the large runner volumes. Other aluminum offerings would have been over double with the bad exchange rate.

Plus I wanted an iron head/intake motor but my perfomance goals are modest.

[Formulajones]

Around here redoing 50 year old cast iron heads is a fairly expensive proposition. That is going through them and doing them right. First we have to assume the head castings are in good shape.

New guides, new seats, new stainless one piece valves, springs, cut for positive seals, all the machine work and parts, a good valve job, and it can easily top $2000 not including what you paid for the heads to start with. That's no port work at all. This is just to get a solid pair of heads that'll run another 100k miles without issues. So then the issue becomes you're into a set of heads for maybe $2500 that only flow 200 cfm. And that's where people start to have a dilemma because most everyone is so performance oriented these days.

I personally won't run the ching chong heads so for me it's either spend $2000 or more on factory iron heads to get them usable, or go for AFR, Brodix, Edelbrock etc... And that just depends on the goals of the project at hand. Does it need to appear stock, does the car have desirable heads to start with, or are we building a hotrod to have fun with. For many it's just a decision of economics that makes the most sense.

You live in Canada that apparently makes things a little more complicated for you. Down here it's bit more straight forward.

[Greg Reid]

I don't think I paid more than $300 to get my 093 heads done but it's been at least 10 years ago. I'm fortunate to have a branch of Dover Cylinder Head nearby. Cylinder heads is pretty much all they do and they have been around for 80-90 years.
https://dovercylinderheadssc.business.site/

[Formulajones]

Well what I'm saying is, when I do stuff like that here, I just don't do the bare minimum I can get away with and hope the rest will last me the next 25 years.

With these 50-60 year old heads, I just won't run a pair on my engines unless they've been completely gone through. That means new seats, a good set of stainless one piece valves, machined for positive seals, new springs and retainers, all new guides, a nice valve job etc..... That's just how I approach every build here and likely why I have a solid success rate.

I've never been one to just replace the 2 guides that are worn, reuse the old valves and hope the other 14 guides and 2 piece valves last another 100,000 miles. Yeah I might get out of there with a $500 set of heads but I'll probably have an oil sucker that has to come back apart in another 2 years, or worse.

This isn't knocking how some of you choose to do things, I'm just explaining the how and why. I know some have budgets and that's just how it is.

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Well what I'm saying is, when I do stuff like that here, I just don't do the bare minimum I can get away with and hope the rest will last me the next 25 years.

With these 50-60 year old heads, I just won't run a pair on my engines unless they've been completely gone through. That means new seats, a good set of stainless one piece valves, machined for positive seals, new springs and retainers, all new guides, a nice valve job etc..... That's just how I approach every build here and likely why I have a solid success rate.

I've never been one to just replace the 2 guides that are worn, reuse the old valves and hope the other 14 guides and 2 piece valves last another 100,000 miles. Yeah I might get out of there with a $500 set of heads but I'll probably have an oil sucker that has to come back apart in another 2 years, or worse.

This isn't knocking how some of you choose to do things, I'm just explaining the how and why. I know some have budgets and that's just how it is.

That is why I went the route I did with used ported heads. Someone else paid for all the upgrades and I picked them up for 1/3 the cost to have the work done myself.

The shop I used said the heads are in good usable shape but will be going onto a new bottom end and wanted a baseline. As such they got new full bronze guides, viton seals, and a valve job for years of pleasure. When my guy asked who built the heads he indicated that they are a nice performance head and saved myself quite a bit of money.

The 995 springs even checked out but he raised the install height to set the closed pressure to match the cam I intend to use. $1600 all in Canadian (<$1200 USD) was including the heads, machine work, my gas to pick them up, taxes, the two Tim Hortons coffees I bought during the deal, ect. When I say "all in" sales guys hate it because I really mean "all in". Especially the new car salesman 😁

As already mentioned, look for the deals as they are out there. You have to look for them though and avoid the home porting unless they come with a flow sheet.

[locomotivebreath]

When I did my 16’s , they flow 235cfm - I was within about $200 of new aluminum d’s . Mine are origional to my car but if one would’ve been cracked or something , I wouldn’t have blinked twice to go aluminum .

[Half-Inch Stud]

You will sleep better knowing that every inhale was smooth, quiet, and full.

[Greg Reid]

I think I may have the receipt somewhere for what I had done. Didn't know as much back then about what to ask for. I just knew that Dover came highly recommended in my neck of the woods by some engine builders and restorers that I respect and I know I got new valves because they had a hard time finding them. Plus, the heads were in good pretty shape when I got them.
Not much market for the 389 stuff.

[blueghoast]

Ching Chong Heads LMAO
Just where do you get these I might try a pair.

GT

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by P@blo

That is why I went the route I did with used ported heads. Someone else paid for all the upgrades and I picked them up for 1/3 the cost to have the work done myself.

The shop I used said the heads are in good usable shape but will be going onto a new bottom end and wanted a baseline. As such they got new full bronze guides, viton seals, and a valve job for years of pleasure. When my guy asked who built the heads he indicated that they are a nice performance head and saved myself quite a bit of money.

The 995 springs even checked out but he raised the install height to set the closed pressure to match the cam I intend to use. $1600 all in Canadian (<$1200 USD) was including the heads, machine work, my gas to pick them up, taxes, the two Tim Hortons coffees I bought during the deal, ect. When I say "all in" sales guys hate it because I really mean "all in". Especially the new car salesman 😁

As already mentioned, look for the deals as they are out there. You have to look for them though and avoid the home porting unless they come with a flow sheet.

I never seem to get that lucky LOL

[Dragncar]

That deal chiefb has in the For Sake section on the ported HO heads is pretty good IMO 1800$ for a set of ready to go Brandywine ported 197s for 1800$ is a good deal.
270cfm, you could make some power with that.
I would do that before ching chong !
Mine could flow near that, but milled .060 to run with flat tops.
Brandywine had a great reputation.

[Formulajones]

If they were 614's I'd have been all over that. But since they seem to be as rare as hens teeth and priced even higher than that, I'll most likely just go aluminum on the next build I do for myself, and just spend a bunch of time disguising them.

[android 211]

If you have a good compressor you don't have to be an expert to use a die grinder and do some light porting yourself. It is surprisingly time consuming even if you don't go wild. Anyone can teardrop the valve guide boss and polish the exhaust ports. You feel inside for any bumps and ridges and get rid of them. The bowls can be smoothed too. The trick is no changing contours or excessive metal removal. You'll probably hurt as much as you help. Also afterword you're Pure Stock ineligible.

[chiphead]

Found my old thread when I worked on mine. I ended up roughing them in, then taking them to Marty Warden to have them finished up, new guides, valve job and flow benched. I'll see if I can find the other threads on these heads.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...&highlight=670