[RocktimusPryme]

I’m in the process of rebuilding my A arms. Last thing in the front suspension that is still probably original.

Springs are back ordered so I’ve got some time.

I thought to myself “I should probably buy new end links for the away bar”. Then I was like “well should I just buy a new thicker bar that comes with new links?”

I’ve heard horror stories or how hard to install they can be unless you have the control arms loose. Which I do.

So what say the suspension gurus? Is it worth spending $200 for a new bar or keep the original skinny bar and just spend $30 on new end links.

[gtospieg]

Not a guru...but I would and have replaced the smaller bar with a bigger one, on a few cars. No regrets and no problems installing with the car fully assembled. The car will go through corners with less lean.

[Pontiac Inc.]

bigger bar

[The Champ]

Ditto on the bigger bar. Adding a rear bar is a plus also.

[694.1]

What model car?
And yes.
But too big without other changes just leads to excessive under steer.

[RocktimusPryme]

For my 67 Firebird. Is should be pretty well sorted for stock replacement type parts. Taller ball joints, new bushings everywhere. Stiffer lowing springs. But it’s not an auto cross machine or anything.

I’m considering doing that mod where you change how the upper arm is bolted in. I can’t remember what it’s called. I probably won’t. I think it will be fine as is.

I’m leaning towards the solid 1-1/8 Summit Branded unit. Has good reviews and is reasonably priced.

Also. Does anyone know what the bump stop if called that bolts onto the subframe?

Mine are missing on both sides, but whenever I look for bump stops for first gens all I get are the ones that go on the arms themselves.

I’m going to jump on the grenade and try to newish Ride Tech dual rate springs. I could find barely any reviews on them but Ride Tech sold me on them.

[JLMounce]

You're thinking of the guldstrand mod. You don't do that mod and tall ball joints or tall knuckle, you do either or. If you've already got tall ball joints, no need to do it. The stop you are missing is called a droop stop. You can find replacements for factory upper control arms from places like Moog. Most aftermarket tubular arms do not come with droop stops.

A solid 1 1/8th in bar adds a lot of wheel rate. needed in competition settings, but not necessarily for a mostly street car. I would recommend the Helwig 1 1/4" hollow bar. It's lighter, is a really good unit and doesn't brake the bank.

As far as installation goes, the factory mounted the front suspension after the sway bar was placed into it's frame mounts. It is difficult, but not impossible to snake a sway bar into place. If the front suspension already has in it what you want, it's probably not worth separating the lower control arm from the knuckles and dealing with that. The best thing to help you on the install is getting the front end as high up in the air as you can. You will need to rotate the bar back and forth as you push it through to the other side.

The factory 11/16th" solid bar will come out fairly easy, you'll think you're on top of the situation. The added girth of the new bar will complicate installation greatly.

If you need to install new springs, kunckles, or shocks that mount on top of the control arms, it'll be a breeze to put the new sway bar in with the lower control arms dropped.

[AG]

I switched from a 7/8" front sway bar on my '65 A body to a 1-1/4" sway bar and it made a big difference in the handling.

[burd]

I’d say yes. Do the poly bush ions on,y on the sway bars. Too.

[RocktimusPryme]

How much if the difference does the weight really make?

I was reading that the difference in weight between a hollow and solid bar is only like a pound.

[JLMounce]

I should clarify that we are talking about wheel rate, not actual rate. It would be the effective increase in resistance to weight transfer at the wheel.

A solid bar is more rigid than a hollow bar. A smaller diameter bar is less rigid than a larger diameter bar.

There are many different ways to skin the suspension cat on these cars. I am of the opinion that they are undersprung and under damped by a lot. My preference is to go with a stiffer spring and use a lighter bar to tune balance.

Others prefer a slinkier spring with a stiffer bar.

Since it sounds like you are going with the ridetech progressive rate springs, I would get their input. They’ll of course try and sell you on their muscle bar, but take the info and make a decision. Based on available data.

FWIW I’m not a fan of progressive rate springs. The idea on paper about having a soft spring that gets stiffer makes sense. Practical application I don’t believe in them. I’d rather have a linear rate spring and a good shock to control it.

[66sprint6]

I found a noticable difference after installing a thicker sway bar. I put a 1 1/8" bar on the '66 Tempest after learning that one from a 2nd Gen Camaro would fit. Got it for 50.00.
When we got the LeMans, I immediately installed a 1 1/4" bar on it. Big difference in handling.

[Red Box Rebel]

I replaced my factory bar decades ago, but also used better springs and went polyurethane bushing everywhere including the control arms and shocks. Added a rear away bar and rear springs and gas shocks all the way around. The handling improvement was amazing, but I needed to install an oil pan baffle so that there would always be enough oil in the pan on hard cornering.
Suspension should be looked at as a whole rather than just a single upgrade piece here and there.

[RocktimusPryme]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spherical-F...-127632-2357-0

I was browsing eBay for sway bars and came across this. Any idea what the advantage is?

[gtospieg]

Those eliminate two bushings which will eliminate some more "give". Direct connection to the lower control arm. I use the same end links on my GTO, I believe they were part of the Global West lower control arms.

[JLMounce]

gtospieg is correct, you are eliminating some bushing give. This results in additional stiffness. Typically those also allow for some mounting adjustment which at times can be needed. You can also help set pre-load in the bar for things like circle track racing.

It's a heim joint so it can be noisy however.

[RocktimusPryme]

I ended up finding an open box 1-1/4” tubular QA1 bar on Marketplace for $125. Feel pretty good about that.

I know the progressive springs are a gamble, but ride tech claims that they use did a lot of research on each spring to ensure it is optimized. They aren’t so expensive that I’m married to them forever.

[1969400HO]

I did a 1" bar and put the end links that were the Prothane or poly urethane , plus 4 new Bilstiens.
Car Could go over the long speed bumps at 35MPH like they weren't even there.
Likely will NOT notice anything about 1" bar, as its torsion-tensile strength is well plenty for a street car.
I used rubber bushings, in the A-arms pieces for smooth shock absorption too.
Thing handled very good all around.

[android 211]

My 72 TA cornered much flatter than my friends regular 73 Camaro. Whether it was the harsher springs or the thicker sway bars I don't know. My TA had a rear bar, the Camaro didn't. I've put thicker front bars and new rear bars on two A bodies that didn't have them stock (67 lemans and 69 GTO) and both handled really well afterward, really a pleasure to drive. I also swapped a thicker front bar and a thick rear bar onto a 87 Cutlass.
It went from really leaning all over the place to feeling much sportier and controllable. I had a 68 Firebird long ago; stock suspension. It was very stable at high speeds but hard cornering it wasn't so great. Neither was my 69 Firebird convertible even after new higher rate springs and new shocks. No changes in sway bars.

[RocktimusPryme]

I popped that fat QA1 bar in place yesterday. The arms arent in yet, but Im looking forward to seeing how much flatter it feels.

Im thinking about writing a "Tips" thread for the A arm rebuild. Its mostly going to consist of "DONT DO IT" because this job has been a nightmare.

Its just not worth all of the headache. Ive probably twice over cost myself the cost of just buying tubular arms in my own time and aggravation. Especially the lowers. Its so hard to keep them from warping, one of them looked like it had already been messed with and was already not true. I have the bushings all in now, but Im having a hell of a time getting the lowers back up into their home and lined up with the holes. Super tight fit, and Im not sure everything is straight.

Im a professional A&P mechanic and a pretty solid DIYer with cars, but this is a job that if I had to do over it would be done with brand new parts or If I wanted to keep the factory arms I would farm out and let someone else fight it. Rather than using loaner tools from autozone that are missing pieces. One of those jobs that goes past the "satisfaction of doing it yourself" line and way into the "this is just not fun" area.