#1  
Old 04-18-2022, 01:46 PM
Pontiaco Pontiaco is offline
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Wink Steering Gurus come in pls

Hey guys I have a 68 pontiac firebird with a 496ci and Kauffman aluminum high port round port heads, after I went thru hell to find a quick ratio steering box, now the Hedman headers won't fit, I really didn't want to go to a manual gear box and didn't want to use the hammer on my freshly ceramic coated headers, any suggestions. The quickest ratio I found on manual its 16 to 1 ratio wish are supposed to be 6 turns stop to stop.
Any suggestions???

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Old 04-18-2022, 02:03 PM
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As I had mentioned in PM, the physical width of the two boxes is similar, if not identical. The input shaft and worm gear housing will also be in the same position. Going to a manual steering box likely will not solve the clearance issue.

These are spendy but you can change your bird to a front steer orientation with a power rack and pinion kit. Most of these kits I don't actually like because they actually increase bump steer. What you gain in "feel" you lose in actual performance and handling by way of poor bump steer.

Speedtech Performance is claiming however that their kit is near identical, if not better than the factory steering system for bump steer.

https://speedtechperformance.com/pro...7-1969-f-body/

"IF" that's true and not marketing spin, this would be a decent upgrade not only in steering, but may provide the clearance you need. Instead of having a 7" wide box attached to the frame where the headers want to go, you'll have a 1" shaft instead.

There is of course still no guarantee here that you won't run into clearance issues with the shaft, or with tie rod clearance issues with the forward tubes. This is unfortunately part of hot-rodding. You've got a set of heads that are larger than factory in an engine compartment that barely fits a Pontiac engine to begin with. Some modification is going to be necessary at time.

Honestly, I'd get that dimple hammer out. It's pretty well documented that dimpling headers does not effect performance in any measurable way. If you have to grind off some ceramic coating, it's likely cheaper to do that then to go with a rack and pinion.

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Old 04-18-2022, 02:53 PM
Pontiaco Pontiaco is offline
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I agree with you Jason about using the hammer, but even if I do it would be to much , the primary tube are 2 inches thick , so It's not just a little ding, that's why I'm asking or suggestions .

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hed-35180
Thanks for your fast respond Jason

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Old 04-18-2022, 03:24 PM
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ZeGermanHam ZeGermanHam is offline
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I'd give the hammer clearance method some consideration. The Engine Masters show proved that power wasn't affected until all of the tubes were severely, horrifically banged up. If you have to add a hefty dent to one tube, it's unlikely to affect anything. Nobody likes to do that to a nice set of headers, so I feel your pain.

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Old 04-18-2022, 04:01 PM
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Sirrotica Sirrotica is offline
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I guess the main question is, Why does Hedman make headers that don't fit the application?

The only other alternative is to offset the engine in the chassis further to the right/passenger side. If my memory is correct, it is already offset somewhat with factory mounts, but moving it a little more is possible. Maybe further offset, and header dimpling could both be applied.

I saw the engine masters with the beat to death headers, and it appeared not as critical as some would think it was.

No doubt that a rear steer car puts the steering box in the wrong position for header clearance, especially with the exhaust location on an already wide engine design.

Another forum addressing the same problems with large tube headers in a first gen car:

http://pontiaczone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24292

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Last edited by Sirrotica; 04-18-2022 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 04-18-2022, 04:53 PM
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FrankieT/A FrankieT/A is offline
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Maybe you could dent a little and grind the box a little. A quick ratio box shouldn't be much different from what you have now sizewise.

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Old 04-18-2022, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrotica View Post
I guess the main question is, Why does Hedman make headers that don't fit the application?

The only other alternative is to offset the engine in the chassis further to the right/passenger side. If my memory is correct, it is already offset somewhat with factory mounts, but moving it a little more is possible. Maybe further offset, and header dimpling could both be applied.

I saw the engine masters with the beat to death headers, and it appeared not as critical as some would think it was.

No doubt that a rear steer car puts the steering box in the wrong position for header clearance, especially with the exhaust location on an already wide engine design.

Another forum addressing the same problems with large tube headers in a first gen car:

http://pontiaczone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24292
My guess is this has something to do with the High Port heads. I believe the raised ports also effect the location of the exhaust flange. If it's raised, it's pushing the header tubes outwards slightly, towards the frame rails, right where the steering box is located.

I have a pare of headmen three tube headers on my D port car and they are only about an 1/8th inch away from the steering box. Add a true 4 tube header with a true 2" primary, and push it outward, it's a recipe for clearance issues.

Pontiaco, what's your intended use of the car? You don't really state, but based on your first post it sounds like you went to decent length to produce a modern, quick ratio box. Is this car a pro-touring style build, or being setup for auto-x, open track etc? Is it a corner carver?

If that's a yes, you're not going to want a stock style manual steering box anyway. First the lock to lock distance is far too great for any amount of decent turn in. Additionally, the lack of power assist will make getting a proper alignment basically impossible. Not that you can't get a good amount of caster into the system, but your steering effort would end up being atrocious. Add wide, sticky tires and things just get worse.

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Old 04-19-2022, 09:35 AM
Pontiaco Pontiaco is offline
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Well I grab the hammer last nite and boy that was painful, but is in.
I want to do a little of everything, but I wanna try road course, been drag racing all my life, the car is mini tubed
With a 700R4 trans, should have done a 5 speed manual but we'll see what happens, thanks guys for all your input!!

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Old 04-19-2022, 10:16 AM
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Yeah sucks to do, but that really was the best option. You didn't want to have a manual box in there if you want to have any type of handling performance out of the car. Glad to hear you got them in!

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Old 04-19-2022, 10:37 PM
Pontiaco Pontiaco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankieT/A View Post
Maybe you could dent a little and grind the box a little. A quick ratio box shouldn't be much different from what you have now sizewise.
the steering box is 2 3/4 turns stop to stop!

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