[GregL]

Hi Guys,
Do all 1964 LeMans with the GTO option have to include the 5N code on the trim tag?
Does this trim tag qualify?
Also, does anyone know what the accessory codes B7G, B80 are?

Thanks, Greg

[johnta1]

I think the 'B7G' is B70?


B70 - Padded dash
B80 - Roof Drip Molding

[dhcarguy]

My 65 GTO is PHS documented real GTO and I do not have the 5N on the tag. My car was built in the Baltimore plant and is not uncommon on those tags.

[b-man]

Okay, I’ll say it.

Get the PHS report, it’s worth it.

[John V.]

b-man is right of course but PHS only useful if the car in question still has its original VIN and Data Plate tags. It is possible for either or both of them to have been swapped out. VIN tags were swapped when these cars were new by auto thieves to launder a stolen car by the expedient of taking a VIN tag from a clean wreck.

The 5 group code 5N was only regurgitated on the Data Plates in '64 at the Kansas City and Pontiac, Mich Fisher Body Plants.

Fremont and Baltimore never regurgitated the 5 Group codes although all Plants used the 5 Group code system for production of the Body Assembly.

Fremont coded a handful of GM UPC codes on the Data Plate, B70 and B80 were among the UPCs you can find on a '64 Fremont Data Plate.

Fremont shielded the Data Plate when painting the firewall so at most you would see overspray at the plate edges. The one in the pic would seem to have been painted over post production.

The '64 Fremont PHS record can be used to determine that the VIN tag and Data Plate are from the same car.

There are ways to confirm that the tags were always attached to the car in question such as the VIN stamp on the frame and date codes on glass and body panels.

[GregL]

Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated!
Yes, I agree, it looks like what I thought was B7G is actually B70. And the car has both the padded dash and the roof drip molding.
I have purchased the PHS reports before for other Pontiacs I have owned but I am a little reluctant to shell out the cash for a PHS report at this point because I do not own the car. I am considering the purchase right now. I have owned several '66/'67 GTO's in the past and am much more familiar with them. But I came across this '64, it's very tired but still very intact with NOM 389. Everything else looks pretty correct. I know the proper GTO designation on this year can be a little vague, that's why I asked.
If I put the deal together I will follow up here right away.
Cheers, Greg

[John V.]

Greg, the VIN must start with 824F, the 8 indicating V8. If it is 624F it was originally a 6 cyl and could not have been a GTO originally.

If you can measure the front stabilizer bar, the GTO got the 15/16" dia. front bar.

If it is a factory Power Steering car, the only way to get the 15/16" dia. bar for a '64 was with the GTO option.

If it is a factory manual steering car, the standard front bar was 7/8" dia. You could separately order the Rally Handing option which included the Quick Ratio Manual Steering and the 15/16" front bar. This option was available for any A body.

So the 15/16" dia front bar is no guarantee that it got the GTO option but it would be a promising clue. Even if it has the 7/8" bar, no guarantee that it isn't a GTO since who knows what swapping occurred over the past near 60 years.

The GTO got the tall radiator. A non-GTO generally would not have the tall radiator unless it was an AC car or got a trailering option, both of which weren't very common. The tall radiator used the tall core support, it is easy to recognize when compared side by side. You might find pix of each if you search this forum.

These are some of the things you can check to increase your confidence level without purchasing the PHS. None of them guarantee anything but are strong indicators.

[G.T.O.boy]

Ask the owner for the original owners manual if he has it, it should have a protecto plate with engine production number to see if it matches the engine in the car, if not ask the car owner to make the purchase price dependent on the PHS verification, be forewarned that PHS has some holes in 64, I had one they could not verify. The other option is to price it as a Lemans and agree to that price if it not that important to a have a verified GTO car. 64 should also have a 17-1/2" core radiator for the GTO option in it even if not an A/C car and have the radiator support that is u shaped not upside down u shaped. It is still hard as these are over 50 years old and parts have been changed out over the years.