[qicvick]

new member here, I've got a 1969 phs doc judge. It has some nice options: auto,ps,pb,disc,air,posi, I have owned it since 1978. It has a 1966 389 motor that was in it when I bought it. It is supposed to have a YZ code motor. It makes me sick that it don't. Did this motor come in anything else besides a Ram air III auto GTO? I"ve never searched on the net before but local wreaking yards, classifieds, swap meets, have never turned up anything. The car runs strong and is a daily driver. I just would like to find the correct motor,would love to know what happened to the origional,it has the origional trans. Also I've read here about a SR motor, is that service replacement?

[qicvick]

new member here, I've got a 1969 phs doc judge. It has some nice options: auto,ps,pb,disc,air,posi, I have owned it since 1978. It has a 1966 389 motor that was in it when I bought it. It is supposed to have a YZ code motor. It makes me sick that it don't. Did this motor come in anything else besides a Ram air III auto GTO? I"ve never searched on the net before but local wreaking yards, classifieds, swap meets, have never turned up anything. The car runs strong and is a daily driver. I just would like to find the correct motor,would love to know what happened to the origional,it has the origional trans. Also I've read here about a SR motor, is that service replacement?

[Glenn]

The RAIII with an automatic is the YZ. The only other motor that could be correct is the RAIV (XP). SR does mean "service replacement". Many of the service replacement blocks were actual RAIV blocks. It's not difficult to alter a replacement block with a stamping kit.

[qicvick]

Thanks for the reply,about the SR code,were they dated the same way as the RAIII?Is the SR a RA 400 replacement only? I wish this forum would have been here back in the 80's, I rebuilt the 389 not knowing at first it wasn't a 400,I had a ton of questions about 400/389 interchanging parts. thanks

[limejudge]

I believe the Trans Am's also had YZ blocks in 70.
The only SR block I ever saw had no code stamp, just a date code near distributor.

['ol Pinion head]

Several different phylosophies on what to do here if after a "correct" block...All have their "fans".

</font><ul type="square"><LI><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "Only original block is correct, must find original block..." Yeah, yeah, rain on my parade will ya... Have personally accomplished this twice. This was long time ago (trail was not cold) & I was VERY lucky. In one case, it cost more $$$ as a finders fee, than the 4 bolt block cost! Was it worth it...to me, yes.</font><LI><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Correct Dated coded replacement, either original block OR professional surface & restamped block. Yep, I said it...Let's here it from the whiners </font><LI><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> SR block aka Service Replacement, often cast years after the car was built, but mysteriously, "the dealer installed this engine shortly after the car was new, when the original owner blew up the original"...yeah sure Unfortunately, many accept this... Another strange occurence, many folks in the hobby think they should restamp these...Hmmmm, ever see how deeply stamped most of these SR's are? </font><LI><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Lastly the "Anti Correct" view...often overheard from clone builders & mudwagon builders...
"Only your original engine was original, stick any old thing in it, have FUN, drive the wheels off of it (smash it, crash it, & do it again)" Uhhhhh, yeah... </font>[/list]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">FWIW, '69 RAIII blocks are 2 bolt blocks with 2 bolt bosses on the side. '70 RAIII blocks are 4 bolt blocks with 5 bolt bosses on the side. Different block castings, different blocks. Only a '69 casting block could be considered "correct" & that is if it has the correct code & dates the car.
The other YZ that shows up...There is a YZ coded block for '75 production. It has a horozontal slash in the center of the Z. Have seen this block "used" several times in '69 Judges & in '70 T/A's, & tried to be passed off as original. Not good at all, buyer beware...

[ June 14, 2002, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: ol' Pinion head ]

[69goatboy]

qicvick, www.gtoman.com or www.wallaceracing.com has listings of block codes. If you're interested in finding any other year YZ to put in your judge, these and other web sites should be able to tell you what other cars used that block.

My YZ is the '75 year block that OPH wrote about.
It does have the cross bar on the 'Z'. I never knew that wasn't normal for other years. Well, you learn something new every day.

OPH, What car had that '75 YZ block? I'm curious to find out what kinda Heintz 57 I have in my 69. I know I have RAI heads (31) from a 68 gto and I'm wondering about what car my block came from.
Thanks

[ June 14, 2002, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: 69goatboy ]

['ol Pinion head]

'69,
I went back & ck'ed records. The YZ cores that I've had that had the slash in the middle of the Z were actually early '76 400 blocks, cast in late '75 (not '75 production blocks). After beginning to keep VIN stamp # records, show two of them with N in VIN stamp, thus Norwoood, thus F-body usage. Have had quite a few of these as cores, they were all #481988 block cores. Cannot remember what I pulled them out, as we have literally pulled in hundreds of Pontiac 400 shortblock cores in over the years.

Correct '69 RAIII YZ code block will carry #9790071 as block casting number & only 2 motor mount bosses. '70 RAIII code block will be cast with either #9799914 (vast majority of them) or #9799915 block casting. FWIW, none of the '69 or '70 YZ blocks, I've had over the years, have had the slash in the Z, & these engines were all over production run, not just say April, May of '70 YZ's from 70 1/2 T/A's.

[qicvick]

thanks everybody who replied,some of this stuff I had never heard before,(most of it).It has always been kinda sad for me to admit mine isn't a numbers matching car.I had a 68 ho goat from 1976 to about 1985,I sold it to my best friend and he gave it to his son about 3 years ago.He restored it and tried to sell back to me about a week ago.11,000. I keep telling myself 11,000 sure would make my Judge nice. thanks again.

[bspear]

The original engine in my judge was grenaded
sometime in the 70's. I found a standard
bore 1970 ws engine a few years ago for a
replacement engine. Sometimes it bothers
me that I don't have the original engine, but
I have come to the conclusion that having a
70 ws block is good enough. The heart of
a long deceased verdaro green RA 3 goat will
continue to live and breath under the hood
of my polar white judge. Get yourself a 69
yz block and be happy with it. Life is too
short too worry about your old engine. You have
a JUDGE, and with a 69 yz engine under the
hood your car will be just as cool as any
numbers matching judge.

[qicvick]

That's what I would like to do,find a 69 YZ motor, but with only @1500 auto RAIII made in 69 it would be pretty costly if you could even find one.Like you said it"s still pretty cool just to have one.I had another Judge back in the 70's that would bring you to tears to hear what happened to it, all thats left is the title and the left front front fender which is on mine that I've got now.

['ol Pinion head]

Few thoughts...
The '69 YZ's will have 62 casting heads in an airconditioned car. I would start by buying a decent set of 62's that dated the Judge, then come up with a dated block. This is not that hard, if having a tough time, feel free & e-mail me. Just buying any old YZ & paying top $ for it & shipping... , well there is a better way.

Other componets...dated intakes are not impossible, but will take time to find if yours is missng. Buyer beware, as many high mile '68 & 69 4 intakes are cracked up through the secondary divider (instant EGR). From experience, typical date span on casting dates will be 3-8 weeks before car production.

Observations...only in one instance, have I run across a '69 YZ, with 48's from the factory, on a '69 RAIII car with a/c. I asked a longtime "super collector" buddy of mine & he said he had never ran across this, but had also ran across some weird date gaps...

On the car originally loaded with this engine, the engine had internal problems on the line & was sent in for rebuild/remachine. Say that, as the block had a double strike VIN (two different ones, one over the other diagonally) & had .010 GM cast pistons in upon it's 2nd owner's rebuild (1974). After buying it, I chased this Judge's history, & it's engine back to 1973.

Strange thing to the casual observer...on this engine, the original YZ block was cast real late October & heads were very early November. The 2nd car this engine went into at the factory was the '69 Judge built last week of March out of Atlanta plant. Basically looking at a 5 month gap from initial casting till a car finally made it out of plant to the dealer. Some nitpickers would cry BS, but in this instance everything was documented.

Will ck in later...

[bspear]

I see 69 YZ blocks in Hemmings every six
or so months. The date code is so hard to
see that I would buy any 69 YZ, no one can
see anything but the two letters when your
hood is up. While it is important that you
get the right heads and block in your car, the
number of people that would ever scrutinze or
care what your date codes are are so few that it
really doesn't matter. My two cents worth.

[Bermuda Blue]

OPH

in your opinion, what is more "correct"

a) SR block with a casting date within the warranty period of the car. specifically, the blocks date code is within one year of the cars delivery to the customer.

b) correctly dated and stamped block from another car. only the vin on the block doesnt match.

thanks for your time.

[feb69judge]

Yeah, I have the same dilema with my 69 Judge I bought in 1978, sitting in the weeds flanked by 2 cars with a blown connecting rod the shot the block. Being 18 and gas hiitng $1 gallon I actually put in a 326 then 350 blew both, finally put the 48's on a november cast 68 WT with headers and ran like a champ, now that it's in 1000's of pieces during a restore, I want preferable a 69 WS or 70 WS put back in it, hemmings is good-top dollar, but you can search links from good ponitac sites and scour all classifieds, but I am not spending over $650 for a WS....