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Old 11-15-2022, 09:19 PM
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Default Delayed Addition to the Break Away Squad

Just realized I never posted a GTO I bought in December 2020. It was for sale off and on in 2019 and 2020. It is a RA3, automatic coupe in Expresso with parchment buckets and cordova top. All numbers matched and nice looking 10 footer but needed a lot of things.

Engine was painted the wrong color and leaked so we pulled it, inspected the inards and resealed it and a coat of correct paint. The radial TA's on the car were defective (they were ballooned up like a tire from the 30's) and it had incorrect 7" rims so I used my last set of minty JA's and a set of G70 whiteline repops (car was ordered with whitelines). Electrical was a mess under the dash but all straightened out now. Had the clock, radio, power antenna and 8 track serviced, the rest of the electrical (seats, windows etc worked fine).

A Gardiner exhaust system replaced the loud set up it had. One challenge was the exhaust tips (this car was built with that option), the consensus in the hobby is that these tips were manual trans (2.25") only but this car and several other PHS's I have show them installed on Automatic cars which had 2" tailpipes (with resonators), this is confirmed by different part numbers in the MPC for auto or manual trans. Since I've never seen an original set of tips from an auto trans car (or know anybody who has) I don't know if the tips were smaller (2") or if the looked the same installed but were reduced where the fit the tailpipe. The best I could do is to install a set of the repro ones and fabricated a spacer to get them to hold properly on the smaller tailpipe.

Car was sold new in Baltimore but body is very solid. floors, trunkpan, trunklid, doors etc are all excellent original but there are patches on the lower rear quarters and they were done poorly so the car is in waiting for its turn in the body shop. The left side can be corrected with a little trimming of excess mat'l from the patch panels but the right side needs replacement. The patch panel was installed wrong and that whole right rear corner had a minor but improperly repaired hit at some point. Basically the lower rear quarter area was slightly pushed in and during the resto it wasn't pulled back into correct position. I bought a minty full quarter years ago from Frank's so this car will use all or some of it (Up to my body guy).

That being said it now looks and drives great. Unusually high option count car (high 30's) and the original woman who bought it got it six months after it was built as a demo so perhaps it was a brass hat car or the dealership owner wanted it for himself. Either way it must have been a tough sell as a demo GTO that had a $5,700 window sticker, Caddy money!
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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to north For This Useful Post:
  #2  
Old 11-15-2022, 09:24 PM
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vertigto vertigto is offline
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She is gorgeous...

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1970 GTO (Granada Gold) - 400 / TH400
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Old 11-15-2022, 09:28 PM
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Realizing I don't have any good pictures to show the exhaust tip but these give a general idea. I installed them as per the factory positioning specs. Not crazy about cornering lamps on GTO's but they are original so they stay. Same for the Cordova top, never liked them on second gen (68-72 GTO's) but this combo looks nice somehow.

Sorry for the sideways pics, thank you Apple!
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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #4  
Old 11-15-2022, 09:34 PM
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4dblnkldude 4dblnkldude is offline
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Nice ride!! Most people don't prefer browns but I have always liked it.

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Old 11-15-2022, 10:26 PM
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“No buy brown” is what my boss would call it when I worked for an auto wholesaler back in the 80’s. His rule for us was never to buy brown, green or rust (those bronze type colors) cars at the auctions.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #6  
Old 11-16-2022, 01:17 AM
will slow gto will slow gto is offline
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Oh, you ended up purchasing this car? Congrats! It was featured in a couple of threads a wile back, which I recently stumbled upon and admired it once again. From the photos the paint looked very nice! Loads of excellent options! Yes, the engine was the wrong color but that seems to be the about only drawback. Enjoy

Edit: I should read a little more thoroughly before posting. Sounds like you fixed the engine paint already. Excellent choice on the tires, I love the white stripes on these.


Last edited by will slow gto; 11-16-2022 at 01:33 AM.
  #7  
Old 11-16-2022, 05:51 PM
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That's a beauty. I love the color combo, vinyl top and all. I agree on the whitewalls, they just look right on that car.

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  #8  
Old 11-16-2022, 10:00 PM
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Sharp car!

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70 Trans Am RA III / T400 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue
70 Trans Am RA III / M20 / Lucerne Blue / Sandalwood
70 Formula RA III / M21 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue
  #9  
Old 11-17-2022, 01:11 AM
Diego Diego is offline
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One of the few cool browns. Car is very pretty.

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Old 11-17-2022, 01:21 AM
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That’s a classy looking car
Must get a lot of attention at shows being so different than most GTOs around. It may have had the cost of a caddy and the class of a caddy but it still have the DNA of a mischievous goat!

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  #11  
Old 11-17-2022, 01:57 PM
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With that look and a RAIII it has a bit of the sleeper vibe or at least as close as a GTO can come to being a sleeper.
One of my favorite Grand Prix marketing phrases comes to mind; "Like an athlete in a tuxedo".

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  #12  
Old 11-17-2022, 03:25 PM
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Color has an amazing impact on people’s perception of things. Ack in the 90’s I had a red on red 69 GTO ragtop and an otherwise identical condition and optioned 69 ragtop GTO but in this brown with parchment guts and white top. The red car attracted attention like a Ferrari and the brown one was invisible. However it was the brown one that would garner the compliments about how beautiful it was rather than how cool it was.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #13  
Old 11-18-2022, 01:30 AM
Mcronk Mcronk is offline
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The first time I saw that car it was for sale at a new car dealer in a online ad a while back. I saw it for sale again in the Tampa area of Fl. I went and looked at it and you are correct about it being a unusually optioned and colored GTO. I saw the RA III with wrong engine paint, defective tires, non operational accessories, body repair in quarters, etc. I was still very interested in buying it due to the amount of options and the color combination. Unfortunately the owner would not let me drive it due to the tires, not even an easy trip around the block. I still kept in touch with him for a few months about the car but he said he had someone very interested in it and would not budge on the price much. Did you buy it out of that area? I took notes and casting numbers/date codes to confirm the originality. It is a very unique car. Good score!

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Old 11-18-2022, 02:29 AM
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My memory gets blended with other cars but I think it had been in Texas and sold there to a guy in Tampa who changed his mind about keeping it. There was some issue about the car having a title issue in Texas he wanted to avoid.

I recall seeing it for sale many years before that still in the Maryland area.

I bought the car at what was then the high end of fair market value which by this summer became a bargain but it might seem ridiculously high if 2023 sees a tank in the economy. Who knows, I try to forget what I paid for each car.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #15  
Old 11-18-2022, 10:29 AM
Mcronk Mcronk is offline
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You are correct. The ad online I saw for the car was a dealership in Texas. I cannot remember the name of the guy who had it in Tampa. I was told by others he had owned a really nice 70 Judge at one time. I don't recall a title issue but I never got to the point of making a purchase. I did buy a 67 2+2 in the mid 80's and all the owner had was a Texas registration slip. I think that was how Texas handled older cars back then. I never titled the 2+2 because I bought it to part out.

I am glad you were able to sort out the issues as there were some challenges with that car. It is loaded with options and being a RA III with an unusual color combination makes it very interesting to me. The 69 body style is my favorite for a GTO. I have had several (see video links below) but still desire a 69 Judge. I am hoping the car market at least stabilizes or comes down some. Like you I don't buy my cars based on value or potential profit. I buy them because I want the experience of owning and driving them.

https://youtu.be/8AOtNhXmUZY

https://youtu.be/8g03_2VPr1s

  #16  
Old 11-18-2022, 10:59 AM
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north north is offline
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Nice vids, the first one is scary in how long ago that was. I remember when that car was in MR, gotta be 30 years ago!

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #17  
Old 11-18-2022, 10:11 PM
Mcronk Mcronk is offline
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I guess you could say I have been at this a long time. I got my first Pontiac in 1978 (a 1975 TA). But a year later I bought my first GTO in 1979. Since then I have had Pontiacs. To date I have held title to 36 Pontiacs. Everything from GTOs, Firebirds/TAs, Grand Prix's, Catalinas, etc. Most were nice looking and driving cars. A few were parts cars. I think I told you the story about the 69 Bonneville Brougham I bought for $500. It was a 428 HO car with long branch manifolds and loaded with options. Wish I knew then what I know now. It had some rust but nothing that could not be fixed.

The Warwick Blue 69 with Parchment interior and white vinyl top was another car that I bought instead of a 69 Judge. I bought that car in 1989 from the original owner who babied it all its life. It came out of Canton Ohio. It was so original and nice I just could not pass it up. I have a soft spot for Parchment interiors and blue exteriors. My 67 GTO is a two tone car with Parchment interior. I currently have 4 Pontiacs. My 68 Tempest Custom scored Modified Gold at the 2022 GTOAA Nationals. The only non GTO to do so this year. However I have decided if I am ever going to own a Judge I need to do it while I can still enjoy it. I did own a 70 OO Judge at one time. I bought it with a blown engine and at the time was only interested in the RAIV heads for a race car I was building. It was a 4 speed car too. Very interesting story on that car. My brother in law remembers it from the late 70s early 80s when a kid in his high school had it! I had a chance to buy Steve Browns 71 Judge convertible back then. We became friends when I parted out the 70 Judge and he bought stuff to restore a 70 Judge he had. I have "missed" a few and let a few get away but back then they were just "hot rods".


Last edited by Mcronk; 11-18-2022 at 10:19 PM.
  #18  
Old 11-18-2022, 10:17 PM
Mcronk Mcronk is offline
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I noticed your question about exhaust extensions. While looking through my 69 assembly manual I came across this information. There were tips made for 2" pipes on automatic cars. They appear to be the same and installed the same. I have attached pics of the page in the manual.
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  #19  
Old 11-18-2022, 10:49 PM
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I have that page. The question is on automatic cars were the extensions staged down to a smaller diameter just at the clamping point or were they made of a narrower piece of tubing?

No one ever repro’d them and I’ve never even seen a picture or drawing of an original auto trans extension.

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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #20  
Old 11-19-2022, 12:07 AM
Mcronk Mcronk is offline
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I don't know how they would have done it. Kind of surprising since there were a lot more automatic transmission cars built that you don't see them more often. The assembly manual would lead one to believe the 2" versions were made from smaller tubing since it only shows a drawing of the extension without it being "necked down". But that is not very compelling proof since the manual is not all inclusive.

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