#21  
Old 12-15-2020, 03:33 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stags View Post
BVZ:
No one has ever found a Buildsheet in a 69 GTO (or Judge) from Baltimore.

Did you mean only Judges?
Any 1969 A-Body Pontiac from Baltimore
But was referencing GTO & Judge, in particular.
As far as being found inside a car.
I think one or maybe two have been shared that were the dealers copy - and given to the buyer.

You may have the 0.00001 !
If its a buildsheet , and not a manila paper trim card
Can you post a picture of the remnants ?

  #22  
Old 12-15-2020, 04:29 PM
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Yes I'll get one tonight. You may be right - was quite a few years ago and I just ASS U Me D it was the buildsheet.

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  #23  
Old 12-16-2020, 07:17 AM
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BVZ - what do you say?
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  #24  
Old 12-16-2020, 08:13 AM
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Looks like a build sheet to me!



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  #25  
Old 12-16-2020, 12:44 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Cool !
Glad i installed a 1 at the end of the 0.0000001 % estimate

If you have a convertible with remote mirror and 4spd, that is your Buildsheet
And
Would make you the only person in PY History who found a Buildsheet anywhere in a 1969 A-Body from Baltimore.

If the seat isn't from a different car you have earned mighty high congratulations !
It would also be cool if a piece of it had something identifying it as from a Baltimore car too. For archeological context

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Old 12-16-2020, 02:13 PM
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BVZ, pretty sure it's the original seat. Every option you see on that scrap is/was on the car when I bought it minus the original tires and floor mats (handy mats? what are those) so would be quite a coincidence if not.

When I can I'll yank the seat and send you some pics. IIRC sheet is pretty well intact - just married to the cushion.

Still thinking maybe they started including them near the end of the '69 run. I'm guessing '70 & up Baltimore cars have them?

ps: my apologies to the OP for hijacking.

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  #27  
Old 12-16-2020, 02:47 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stags View Post
I'm guessing '70 & up Baltimore cars have them?
1970 Baltimore do have them
Not trying to say every owner will find one, but many of them have been found.
After that, not certain if Baltimore even built them anymore.

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Old 12-16-2020, 03:31 PM
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No Pontiac A-bodys built out of the Baltimore or Arlington plant for the '71 or 72 model year.
Lot of published websites & books are clueless about '71 production & list both as '71 Pontiac "GTO" plants.

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  #29  
Old 12-16-2020, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stags View Post

Still thinking maybe they started including them near the end of the '69 run. I'm guessing '70 & up Baltimore cars have them?
They were never meant to be "included". Once the build was complete they had served their purpose, and were intended to be thrown out at the end of the line along with all the other extra screws on the floor, pieces of paper, coffee cups, inspection tickets, material tags, etc.

Finding a build sheet either means that (a) somebody didn't do their job, or (b) the car got built up around it in such a fashion that it was necessary to leave it where it landed.

K

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  #30  
Old 12-16-2020, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore View Post
They were never meant to be "included". Once the build was complete they had served their purpose, and were intended to be thrown out at the end of the line along with all the other extra screws on the floor, pieces of paper, coffee cups, inspection tickets, material tags, etc.

Finding a build sheet either means that (a) somebody didn't do their job, or (b) the car got built up around it in such a fashion that it was necessary to leave it where it landed.

K
Interesting. Always thought it was intentional yet oddly random as to if/where they ended up.

You reminded me of my father. In the sixties he worked at Boeing Vertol outside Philly where they were building Chinooks for Vietnam. He worked in the flight test operation and had access to the assembly area. Time to time he would bring home buckets full of assorted aircraft fasteners swept up off the floor. They would be thrown away since sorting and restocking them was not cost effective. Guys were always asking me: what's with the holes in those bolts?

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  #31  
Old 12-16-2020, 06:25 PM
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Congrats what a great car!!

  #32  
Old 12-18-2020, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stags View Post
...and floor mats (handy mats? what are those)....

Rear seat floor mats.

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  #33  
Old 12-22-2020, 11:53 PM
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what a car , and Canadian too, soo cool. hey i thought it was a rumor that gto judge spoiler trunk rods are different, but that phs docs says the rods are special? i figured it was just a myth?

also what is official definition of a pattern car? that is soo cool you know the stripe color, i've never seen that documented!

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Old 12-23-2020, 12:27 AM
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There are six versions of pattern cars, they are best described as the initial cars produced by PMD where they selected the options to create a desired initial image for the car.

Basically they all had the following options... judge option (of course), power steering, power disc brakes, console, soft ray on all windows, deluxe seat belts, AM radio, remote mirror, rally gauges+clock, safe-t-track (HD version except if AC).

In addition there were three transmissions possible, standard 3 speed manual, optional 4 speed manual (either manual trans car had hood tach) or automatic. Lastly you could order AC.

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  #35  
Old 01-05-2021, 12:47 AM
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Default 69 Judge

Very cool Judge!
I have a 69 Carousel Judge as well with a build date of January 29, 1969
Also a friend of mine 15 mins away from me has a Jan 23, 1969 Carousel Judge! Both our cars are Baltimore 4-Sd Judges!
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  #36  
Old 01-05-2021, 10:32 AM
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Your Judge is also a very early non-pattern car, I’m basing that on the snippet of the first option; a rear defogger.

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1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
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Old 01-05-2021, 11:34 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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I'm going to guesstimate it was a Pattern+Plus .
From it being a Zone Order

  #38  
Old 01-05-2021, 12:20 PM
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Default 69 Judge

Yup the Canadian cars needed them!
Mine actually is a radio Delete Judge, Id love to get a block off plate and put it back to stock as a an/fm was added along with antenna.
It’s cool that I know from Veh. History that back in 1977 our Club President Peter M was the owner and also others who are big time Pontiac guys in our sport. I don’t have the original Ram Air III in it as he raced it with a IV
My engine is a stock 69 400 with #48 heads that runs great but I will be building something for it with a little more as I have Mike Voycey’s 722 heads that flow 280cfm. So if anyone out there has a SR block or WS I would be interested, Don’t really want to touch this 400
Also hopefully the world gets back to normal some day so Norwalk can happen again!
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  #39  
Old 01-08-2021, 01:31 PM
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Very Cool. John, do you or your friend have your cars registered with me by chance for the 69 Judge Registry? Off memory I do not have too many 69 Judges where a radio option was not picked. Thanks

www.69judgeregistry.com

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Old 01-08-2021, 01:52 PM
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It surprised me that when I go through my PHS listing that rear defoggers are not a popular option on Canadian cars. I suspect that word was out that they didn't really work in the winter. They were designed for condensation not frost. Since they suck air from the trunk and blow it on the rear glass they go from just useless to worse once the trunk gets wet inside from either water or snow getting in when you open it or worse when the back window started leaking and the trunk would stay wet.

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1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA Hardtops)
1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr Hardtop and a Cvt)
1969 LeMans Safari 2 seat Wagon
1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Catalina (3 Cvt’s & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie Cvt
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
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