#1  
Old 05-31-2021, 05:29 PM
cdnroundport cdnroundport is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 241
Default WIW question 1970 WS engine

I was wondering what the current market is for a strong running 1970 WS engine with its original 12 heads all pulleys and brackets Non original intake carb and distributor (all aftermarket)

Its a Pontiac plant block and if you 70 A body Ram Air 3 car ends in 9_ 7 please reach out I have your engine

WS short blocks seem to be selling for 2000-2500 range 12 heads in 1500 area

Here in Ontario we are looking at approx 3500 for machine work and parts

Thanks for your opinion

  #2  
Old 05-31-2021, 06:02 PM
padgett's Avatar
padgett padgett is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 467
Default

Think WS is for a '70 350hp 400 with manual transmission.

Hopefully has a steel timing chain pulley.

__________________
Orlando - Where rust must be imported.
Web Site


  #3  
Old 05-31-2021, 06:09 PM
cdnroundport cdnroundport is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 241
Default

I think you need to put your glasses on Padgett WS is Ram Air 3 You are thinking WT

  #4  
Old 05-31-2021, 06:38 PM
padgett's Avatar
padgett padgett is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 467
Default

That's what I get for going from memory. Thanks for the correction. Correct WT is 400 4bbl man trans, WS is RA, WW is RA IV. Those that begin with Y (and XP) are for automagics.

I still like a 744 cam but is not correct for 1970.

__________________
Orlando - Where rust must be imported.
Web Site


  #5  
Old 05-31-2021, 06:48 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
That's what I get for going from memory. Thanks for the correction. Correct WT is 400 4bbl man trans, WS is RA, WW is RA IV. Those that begin with Y (and XP) are for automagics.

I still like a 744 cam but is not correct for 1970.
I put a 744 cam in my '70 YZ engine... music to my ears!

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #6  
Old 07-29-2021, 06:19 PM
fatguyzinc's Avatar
fatguyzinc fatguyzinc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: in denial, like most car freaks... ok, honolulu hawaii 96822
Posts: 5
Default

sorry to hijack the thread, but on a similar note--
anybody got an idea on a 1970 "YC" 455? its weird,
has a big cast "N" on gun drilled crank, 4 bolt mains,
according to our local pontiac 'expert' ( according to him
at least...? ) its a one of 7 correct for 1970 gto judge 455
or low hundreds production hurst grand prix sj 455's....

i dunno though. it does have a YC and the driver side
front of block says 455. had auto flywheel on it.

  #7  
Old 07-29-2021, 09:12 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: INJUN Territory, Red State Merica!
Posts: 9,566
Default

70 GTO 455 engines coded YA/YC are much more common than the info you are getting... YA early, YC late in the production year. The GTO 455 manual transmission WA coded block is harder to find, IMO. Value is WYCG, of course there are some absolutely ridiculous asking prices out there on the Internet.

The same application automatic big valve 455 engine was coded XF in GrandPrixs & big Pontiacs, have had a bunch of '70 XF's, nearly all pulled out of too far gone '70 GP SJ's.

__________________
Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms.
  #8  
Old 07-29-2021, 10:02 PM
fatguyzinc's Avatar
fatguyzinc fatguyzinc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: in denial, like most car freaks... ok, honolulu hawaii 96822
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head View Post
70 GTO 455 engines coded YA/YC are much more common than the info you are getting... YA early, YC late in the production year. The GTO 455 manual transmission WA coded block is harder to find, IMO. Value is WYCG, of course there are some absolutely ridiculous asking prices out there on the Internet.

The same application automatic big valve 455 engine was coded XF in GrandPrixs & big Pontiacs, have had a bunch of '70 XF's, nearly all pulled out of too far gone '70 GP SJ's.


ok thanks, i just never seen the gun drilled "N" crank before
and ive done more than a few 400/455 pontiacs.

  #9  
Old 08-02-2021, 11:26 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,419
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatguyzinc View Post
its a one of 7 correct for 1970 gto judge 455
or low hundreds production hurst grand prix sj 455's....
It
""could be""
from one of the (14 or 17 ?) 1970 455 Judges
iirc 11 Hardtops and 3 Convertibles - its a documented number but it escapes me at the moment and i don't want to dig it up right now.
All of them were YC Code Automatics

Only 1 of those cars have been documented - a Convertible.
You could get the PHS using the VIN from the block and find out for sure.
If your friend is a gambling man - make a bet with him for who pays for the PHS.

It wouldn't be from a GP or Fullsize (XF code)
It will be from a 70 GTO .... maybe a Judge

There were thousands of 455 YC Code GTO's in 1970 ( at least 2 or 3 thousand , if not more) . Also a documented number i dont want to dig up right now.

It would be INCREDIBLE to document another 1970 455 Judge

  #10  
Old 08-02-2021, 12:54 PM
fatguyzinc's Avatar
fatguyzinc fatguyzinc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: in denial, like most car freaks... ok, honolulu hawaii 96822
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
It
""could be""
from one of the (14 or 17 ?) 1970 455 Judges
iirc 11 Hardtops and 3 Convertibles - its a documented number but it escapes me at the moment and i don't want to dig it up right now.
All of them were YC Code Automatics

Only 1 of those cars have been documented - a Convertible.
You could get the PHS using the VIN from the block and find out for sure.
If your friend is a gambling man - make a bet with him for who pays for the PHS.

It wouldn't be from a GP or Fullsize (XF code)
It will be from a 70 GTO .... maybe a Judge

There were thousands of 455 YC Code GTO's in 1970 ( at least 2 or 3 thousand , if not more) . Also a documented number i dont want to dig up right now.

It would be INCREDIBLE to document another 1970 455 Judge

ahso...i wonder if this is one of those "not original but "technically correct"
deals, like you find a 70 454 vette with no engine, then find a 70 454 that
though isnt 'matching #'s', codes as 'correct' for a 1970 vette.......

might have to try that PHS documentation, if it IS one of those weird ones
it would be worth finding out. however, i "think" this one was originally
pulled from a 70 GP 455 sj hurst edition, i still have the weird 'hidden hurst'
auto shifter (push 1-2-3 at 45 degree towards passenger headlight and it
ratchets. ) from the same car. or was it a different one... i dunno, been 30+
years so its kinda fuzzy.....

  #11  
Old 08-02-2021, 01:49 PM
fatguyzinc's Avatar
fatguyzinc fatguyzinc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: in denial, like most car freaks... ok, honolulu hawaii 96822
Posts: 5
Default

also, just pulled this off another pontiac site...

"the 1970 455 is the only year high compression 455, in a full size pontiac, the 4bbl horsepower was a stock 360 horses, in a gto, it was 370 horses. the motor is worth it's weight in gold. don't pass it up."

charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

  #12  
Old 08-02-2021, 02:28 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,419
Default

He accidentally got his HP numbers backwards.
It was 360 in the GTO even if it had the RamAir option with it.
370 in Fullsize & GP = XF Block Code

i think the base Fullsize 455 code YH with 15 heads was rated 360

Those shifters were standard in all 70 GTO's with Automatic&Console
Probably standard in all 70 GP's too, with Auto&Console.
3-2-1 in faint numbers on pass side of console bezel

NOT busting your balls on that stuff, just updating your software a little but.

2227 GTO's with YA & YC / 64 heads Engines (Automatics)
YA was dropped pretty early, so more YC's than YA's most likely.
YA was dropped somewhere around Nov-Dec 1969 build dates.
It's another one of those "dont want to dig it up right now" factoids.

All the GP's would have been XF/64 heads - per factory install

  #13  
Old 08-02-2021, 04:52 PM
Mr_GTO's Avatar
Mr_GTO Mr_GTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sarasota FL
Posts: 3,005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
It
""could be""
from one of the (14 or 17 ?) 1970 455 Judges
iirc 11 Hardtops and 3 Convertibles - its a documented number but it escapes me at the moment and i don't want to dig it up right now.
All of them were YC Code Automatics

Only 1 of those cars have been documented - a Convertible.
You could get the PHS using the VIN from the block and find out for sure.
If your friend is a gambling man - make a bet with him for who pays for the PHS.

It wouldn't be from a GP or Fullsize (XF code)
It will be from a 70 GTO .... maybe a Judge

There were thousands of 455 YC Code GTO's in 1970 ( at least 2 or 3 thousand , if not more) . Also a documented number i dont want to dig up right now.

It would be INCREDIBLE to document another 1970 455 Judge
I thought I saw one yesterday in Punta Gorda FL. Not sure if it was a documented Judge but certainly looked like a 455 RA car (had RA exhaust manifolds though) so that lends me to believe they were added on. It was a very nice red on red car.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	73673.jpg
Views:	180
Size:	96.0 KB
ID:	570729  


Last edited by Mr_GTO; 08-02-2021 at 04:58 PM.
  #14  
Old 08-02-2021, 05:44 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_GTO View Post
I thought I saw one yesterday in Punta Gorda FL. Not sure if it was a documented Judge but certainly looked like a 455 RA car (had RA exhaust manifolds though) so that lends me to believe they were added on. It was a very nice red on red car.
Something that might be starting to be forgotten, is the "no replacement for displacement" mentality that reigned supreme through the 1990's;
I am confident that many Judges had their "plain old 400" replaced for a "better 455" over the years.

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #15  
Old 08-02-2021, 06:53 PM
fatguyzinc's Avatar
fatguyzinc fatguyzinc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: in denial, like most car freaks... ok, honolulu hawaii 96822
Posts: 5
Default

as im usually the guy on the top, sometimes it DOES matter...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	size-matters.jpg
Views:	177
Size:	30.0 KB
ID:	570745  

  #16  
Old 08-02-2021, 07:42 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

too funny.

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #17  
Old 08-02-2021, 09:26 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,419
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
... iirc 11 Hardtops and 3 Convertibles - its a documented number but it escapes me at the moment and i don't want to dig it up right now.
All of them were YC Code Automatics
i fumbled and dropped the ball a little bit on that remark.
All of the 1970 455 Judges were Automatics , but some of them may have been early enough to had YA code engines -
instead of YC code.

With only 1 known documented example - there is no way to know for sure.
medium grade brainfart on my part

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatguyzinc View Post
as im usually the guy on the top, sometimes it DOES matter...
The guy in the Blue looks like he was pretty close to making a comeback in that match.
Hope he lived to tell about it .

  #18  
Old 08-02-2021, 09:42 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,419
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_GTO View Post
It was a very nice red on red car.
Super Sharp looking 70 !
Someone is definitely proud to own that one

  #19  
Old 08-03-2021, 04:02 AM
Kenth's Avatar
Kenth Kenth is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Kingdom of Sweden
Posts: 5,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_GTO View Post
It was a very nice red on red car.
Front fender eyebrows on wrong sides?

__________________
1966 GTO Tri-Power
1970 GTO TheJudge
http://www.poci.org/
http://gtoaa.org/
  #20  
Old 08-03-2021, 03:41 PM
Mr_GTO's Avatar
Mr_GTO Mr_GTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sarasota FL
Posts: 3,005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
Something that might be starting to be forgotten, is the "no replacement for displacement" mentality that reigned supreme through the 1990's;
I am confident that many Judges had their "plain old 400" replaced for a "better 455" over the years.
It was a correct 455...codes, heads, 12 bolt, etc.

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:24 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017