[vertigto]

Trying to decide between going with a mini starter (IMI 108, or maybe RobbMC) or standard OEM style like the Powermaster 3655 (hi torque) and a heat shield. I wouldn't mind keeping it stock looking, but wondering if that's shortsighted. I'm aware of the potential for heat soak issues, so considering mini.

This would be for my 70 GTO, mild performance rebuild, ram air manifolds. Original engine/tranny, but have made some mods/updates to the car for drivability...so not concerned with having to be all stock.

I'd like to make a more informed choice and am in everyone's experiences with either mini or OEM style replacements and any suggestions.

Also curious about 0 gauge cables to/for battery...thanks in advance.

[steve25]

Go with the mini without question!
They do everything right including pulling less amperage out of the battery for a given cranking rpm!

[JUDGE3]

No way on the mini. why? those are for fitment issues using headers and although you will likely get the high fives on em they can be a real pain. lack of support at the starter gear for one.

your using ram air manifolds. I have the high torque powermaster, you will love it. now if you were using headers and racing, pretty much gotta go mini.

[vertigto]

Hmmm...you've both hit on why I created this post. I am having this exact internal argument.

[Formulajones]

I go either way but I will say if I go mini, I'll only use them if they have the nose cone (pinion) support. Robb MC offers this option and I'd highly recommend that if that's the direction you go.

Otherwise I have no issues with stock starters, with RA manifold and with headers. They have worked fine for me either way.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I go either way but I will say if I go mini, I'll only use them if they have the nose cone (pinion) support. Robb MC offers this option and I'd highly recommend that if that's the direction you go.

Otherwise I have no issues with stock starters, with RA manifold and with headers. They have worked fine for me either way.

I always think that their is a problem someplace that impedes electron flow when I hear about hot-start issues and such. Or, the initial timing is through the roof to compensate for poor tuning. There is no reason a standard issue G.M. Starter can't crank a v-8....

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

I always think that their is a problem someplace that impedes electron flow when I hear about hot-start issues and such. Or, the initial timing is through the roof to compensate for poor tuning. There is no reason a standard issue G.M. Starter can't crank a v-8....

Correct. Usually that issue can be traced to a number of different reasons. Very high amp draw through old wiring, especially after the wiring gets warm. Ignition switches are another one. As contacts wear or corrode.

The starters themselves when they don't like to crank when hot it's usually the armature and unfortunately most of the cheap rebuild kits you buy today don't come with a new armature. On top of that the cheap rebuilt starters you buy at the local chain store, are in most cases rebuilt reusing the original armature. They replace the brushes, a couple bushings, and a few other inconsequential things. Then you're stuck with the same old armature.

So even with a rebuilt unit you end up with the same hot start issue.

If you can find good quality parts, they are pretty easy to rebuild, and you'll likely end up with a better starter than a chain store rebuild.

Last one I did was for my Formula maybe 25 years ago when we had a local electric shop that sold all the parts, for alternators, starters etc...and I replaced it all. I ran headers on the car for about 15 years, and RA manifolds the rest of the time. No heat shields for the starter (70 didn't have those as far as I know, that was a 71-up thing for F-body) It's still in there kicking just fine.


Even with that said, I do like the mini starters, if they have a pinion support. I just wish they'd start putting an "R" terminal on the darn things.

[llwta76]

On ebay I went to "gauge wire and cable" for my custom battery cables. Top quality made in the USA. They didn't cost much more than the boxed stuff one usually gets. And far above the quality you're accustomed to. Any gauge,any length.with connectors of your choice. They are A+. Larry

[P@blo]

The physical size of the mini starters are an advantage in itself not to mention the clocking. The factory starter is so close to my headers it didn't matter what the local starter shop could do for my situation it would hot-start. The mini starter has quite a bit of breathing room so I do not think we can blanket statement there is no need for the better starter technology.

Wiring system checked out and confirmed with a remote starter switch and back and forth with new cables battery ect.

Never heard of a powermaster starter needing pinion support either and will go the same route again next time I buy.

[David Jones]

I’ve had a RobbMc for years. 15? Good product.

[tom s]

I have been using this one in both bellhousing mounted and block mounted for years with zero issues.Tom
https://www.hitorque.com/

[Formula8]

RobbMc here too. Absolutely zero fitment issues, can be clocked 360 degrees, spins the motor way faster than the stock starter and I have had mine for over 10 years with no problems. Even if I did, I would buy another one.
https://www.robbmcperformance.com/pr...c_starter.html

[JC455]

I’ve used both- I like both.
I will say this: On my old 68 LeMans, the starter portion of the ignition switch was bad, so a P/O had wired in a push start button(years before they became a thing-lol) to the factory solenoid.
After I bought it, I put a 455 in it and 4 tube headers on. I put new battery cables from AZ(prolly 4 gauge) and the largest CCA battery they offered in the factory case size.
That thing NEVER gave me a bit of issue cranking over!! 115* heat, sitting in the sun, heat soaked engine: Cranked right over!

[i82much]

my two cents - whatever you decide, run a Ford solenoid on the inner fender. That way you don’t have a big hot wire running a long length in your engine bay and it makes bump starting a lot easier too.

[OCMDGTO]

Either will work fine if set up right. On my old 70 GTO I ran a stock full size starter with both headers with heat shield and stock manifolds without. I put 120k+ miles on that car. On my 69 I have had Ramair manifolds and ministarter with heat shield for 40k miles. Nothing but mini starters from here on out

[1965gp]

As for the 0g wire I am a big fan. I do this to all of my builds now. I can get it at O’reily or if you want the really heavy duty stuff go to a stereo shop.

[lust4speed]

IMI mini starter is all I will use and recommend to my friends. First, no reason to use a 1940's era hunk of iron that has a massive amp draw (plus it really, really hurts if you loose your grip and it nails you in the forehead). Up until a couple years ago I wouldn't care what mini starter was installed, but seems that what used to be a great product under the company names from Summit or Jegs now have some really loose tolerances. The IMI High Torque starters have remained a quality product.

0 cable isn't a bad idea if staying with the original stock starter, but the mini's have much less amp draw and don't need the band aid.

[Formulajones]

My only complaint with the mini starters that everyone seems to miss is they never have the "R" terminal to supply power to the points while cranking. Not sure why one of these companies can't add a simple "R" terminal, even for a small additional fee.

While that may not apply to some that have since switched to some other wiz bang ignition system, those of us that still use points really benefit from the "R" terminal, which is why I've never installed a mini starter on my own Firebird.

[pippintook]

If you go with a mini starter, I think the IMI 108 or RobbMC would both be quality products. I have used an IMI 108. IMI has good customer service. I had some unique issues with an aftermarket flywheel and IMI was great with helping me. They are in California and responded to my emails and stood behind their products (im sure RobbMC does the same). As you know, a mini starter install is so much easier. I used to hate lying on my back and getting the stock starter in place - so heavy I have been beating the hell out of my IMI 108 for last 6-7 years - drive it all the time - stroker 400 with headers and no starter issues.
.
About "pinion support" - my IMI 108 is stock and no pinion support. This has not been an issue for me. I drive my car a ton. Daily drive it in summer - stop and start a lot. My car is no trailer queen !! I have not had any starting issues. I did use better cable going to starter (welding cable if I recall).

[grandam1979]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

My only complaint with the mini starters that everyone seems to miss is they never have the "R" terminal to supply power to the points while cranking. Not sure why one of these companies can't add a simple "R" terminal, even for a small additional fee.

While that may not apply to some that have since switched to some other wiz bang ignition system, those of us that still use points really benefit from the "R" terminal, which is why I've never installed a mini starter on my own Firebird.

I have a gpi starter and I’m pretty sure it has the R terminal. It’s a really good starter been cranking my 13.1 464 over for 8 years now. I had a gpi on my t/a before that 15 years trouble free.