[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by necdb3

I think it's just personal preference. I own both. I have to admit, my 69 T/A just doesn't do it for me with an automatic however, I love my 75 G-ville Conv. which obviously has an automatic. To me, it depends on the car.

Maybe you stop by, and i will provide your TH400 with a new personality.

My 69 Bird (T/A tribute, sold) was fantastic with the TH400.

My 68 4-Speed GTO is a manual-shifted 4L80 for OD, and boy the project delayed because the TH400 was big fun.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by necdb3

I think it's just personal preference. I own both. I have to admit, my 69 T/A just doesn't do it for me with an automatic however, I love my 75 G-ville Conv. which obviously has an automatic. To me, it depends on the car.

Agree completely with this. The time frame the car was built is a big factor too. When talking about Pontiac cars specifically, I wouldn't own one with an automatic prior to 1965. An old GTO with a 2 speed? No thank you. A 61-64 full size with a Slim Jim. Had 2. Sold them BECAUSE of the transmission. Old Bonneville with a 4-speed Hydramatic, again, better than a Slim Jim, but not for me. Once the 400 Turbo entered the picture, it was a game changer for GM. I am sure there is someone out there that will argue the Slim Jim was the greatest automatic transmission ever. I will stick to a manual trans in those older models.

[J GLASGO]

The Mecum announcers are stating the obvious. The 4 speed cars are always more valuable than an automatic. We just had a beautiful 66 GTO automatic for sale. Nobody wanted it because it was automatic. Could have sold it many times over if it was a 4 speed.. Like the old saying goes” nobody looks in a car and says, Cool, it’s an automatic!

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by J GLASGO

The Mecum announcers are stating the obvious. The 4 speed cars are always more valuable than an automatic. We just had a beautiful 66 GTO automatic for sale. Nobody wanted it because it was automatic. Could have sold it many times over if it was a 4 speed.. Like the old saying goes” nobody looks in a car and says, Cool, it’s an automatic!

Do you feel the sale of the 66 GTO automatic would have been the same negative result if the car was a 67 with a Hurst dual gate shifted turbo 400? Just curious.

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Just goes to show people will argue about anything. The vast majority of cars in the US have automatic transmissions and it's been that way since the 1950s, so your side won long ago.

See, now that's the thing, Were all not arguing. Were all just thrown out our opinion.

[Lemans64]

Nothing against Auto's but just not for me in my 64. Standards seem to be liked more by spectators, or look loo's. Once the Auto is set up properly it's easier to drive than a standard car.
lots of variables on the standard so it makes the driver work harder to make the car go down the road, maybe telling the car what they want? I prefer a standard in an old school
car but in a truck I prefer an Auto, my daily work commuter is a standard as well. Commuter gets better mileage in a standard version than an auto version of itself.
But again just personal preference. When taking the Manual trans apart one can see the power route and makes it easier to diagnose as apposed to an auto?
just my 2 cents.

[The Champ]

Of course the Mecum (and other auctioners) are going to promote the 4spd over the automatic in an original muscle car. The 4spds are the more desirable car based on their heritage and rarity.

Back in the day, the serious muscle car buyer, wanted the 4spd because it WAS the higher performance option.

Today, automatics have been greatly improved and are serious performance transmissions. But the automatics of the day back in the 60's didn't perform that well in comparison to the 4 spd.

A few comments made that women drivers dictated the purchase of an automatic. I do believe that to be true in many cases.

However, when we stated looking for my wife's Camaro about 25 years ago, HER stipulations were (in order):

1. Manual transmission
2. V8
3. Air conditioning would be nice.

In a previous thread I posted about buying our daughter her first toy car. It's a 2009 Solstice coupe with a 5 spd.

I taught both my wife and my daughter to drive. They both engine having 3 pedals on fun cars. For daily drivers, we all enjoy our modern automatics.

As to the comments that it depends on the car....

I wouldn't want a manual transmission in my '49 Cadillac Series 75 Limo. They were available back in 1949, but not desirable for that vehicle.

[scott70]

Converters have seemed to come a long way since the 60's. Extracting more performance out of the same car.

[PAUL K]

I perfer the auto (TH350/TH400) over a stick without a doubt, for many reasons. There might be something wrong with me (most likely is) but I find it humorous the majority of guys driving up the prices of the four speed cars couldn't turn a respectable quarter mile time with their stick shift car if their life depended on it! ..... But it's gotta be a four speed!

[Sirrotica]

I have driven probably a million miles driving standard shifts, I used to be able to slam a 4 speed about as fast as anyone I knew, so I have the skills. I'm just not willing to miss a gear in a race. Plus the other fact that a stick is much harsher on driveline parts if you're shifting with the skinny pedal to the floor.

A T 400, or a 4L80E doesn't tear up the driveline nearly as much in a high performance car.

One other thing is on a autocross course, you can concentrate more on pointing the car rather than shifting, and pointing the car. I've run both on an autocross course, and I definitely prefer an automatic.

On a dirt track, if you are involved in a incident and have to stop on the track, (contact with another car, or a spinout) the car is already back in first, just stab the gas and go. In competition, it could save yer butt.

If your girl is sitting in the middle of the car, she doesn't have to shift, or move out of the way while you shift.......

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I have driven probably a million miles driving standard shifts, I used to be able to slam a 4 speed about as fast as anyone I knew, so I have the skills. I'm just not willing to miss a gear in a race. Plus the other fact that a stick is much harsher on driveline parts if you're shifting with the skinny pedal to the floor.

A T 400, or a 4L80E doesn't tear up the driveline nearly as much in a high performance car.

One other thing is on a autocross course, you can concentrate more on pointing the car rather than shifting, and pointing the car. I've run both on an autocross course, and I definitely prefer an automatic.

On a dirt track, if you are involved in a incident and have to stop on the track, (contact with another car, or a spinout) the car is already back in first, just stab the gas and go. In competition, it could save yer butt.

If your girl is sitting in the middle of the car, she doesn't have to shift, or move out of the way while you shift.......

I am a stick guy but agree with this 100%. Driven in anger, you break a lot more parts with a stick. Don't have that liquid shock absorber in the powertrain. 20+ years ago, I went to buy a new truck and specified an automatic, as I was tired of shifting in my day-to-day. I ended up with a gently used stick version for less than half the price of the new unit. And drove that for the next 16 years. The one I replaced it with is an automatic, and I have no regrets. But my stick GTO and stick Corvette are sure fun to drive.

[J GLASGO]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I perfer the auto (TH350/TH400) over a stick without a doubt, for many reasons. There might be something wrong with me (most likely is) but I find it humorous the majority of guys driving up the prices of the four speed cars couldn't turn a respectable quarter mile time with their stick shift car if their life depended on it! ..... But it's gotta be a four speed!

I assure you, I can get a 4 speed down the track!! Beauty of a 4 speed. Is you don’t have to be flogging it to enjoy it. That said, a 12 second quarter mile in a 4 speed feels like a 10 second ride. While an automatic running 12 seconds is boring.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by J GLASGO

I assure you, I can get a 4 speed down the track!! Beauty of a 4 speed. Is you don’t have to be flogging it to enjoy it. That said, a 12 second quarter mile in a 4 speed feels like a 10 second ride. While an automatic running 12 seconds is boring.

I'm sure you can along with several others posting on this thread. Doesn't change my mind that the majority of the guys driving the price of four speed cars up.... can't.

I recall seeing a fellow running high ten's with a 79 TA that had a Whitmore built 400 and manual trans. The car looked violent for the first three gears, I remember thinking to myself "maximum parts breakage". It's really cool to watch a well driven four speed car go down the track. Byron dragstrip used to host a "stick shift nationals" race. It was always fun to watch.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Ahhhh, cruisin and then getting on it with the 57 year old cast iron flywheel that is gonna chunk someday

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by J GLASGO

I assure you, I can get a 4 speed down the track!! Beauty of a 4 speed. Is you don’t have to be flogging it to enjoy it. That said, a 12 second quarter mile in a 4 speed feels like a 10 second ride. While an automatic running 12 seconds is boring.

Nice to see you posting John.

Tom Vaught

[gokitty]

And then there was the Torqueflite switch pitch automatic transmission!

[KS circutguy]

Kenny Bell switch pitch Turbo 400, originally developed for Buick by GM.

[Mister Pontiac]

An old friend of mine used to say, "Love and Hate both of them!"

Exactly. And that's why I have and drive both.

But boy, this thread reminds me of another one going on recently about whether or not to pre-fill the oil filter. Of all things.

I can't get these few minutes of my life back either.

[59safaricat]

Originally Posted by Mister Pontiac

But boy, this thread reminds me of another one going on recently about whether or not to pre-fill the oil filter. Of all things.

WHAT, you don't pre-fill your oil filter?!

https://tenor.com/view/greta-how-dare-you-gif-15723337

[242177P]

Why not both? They used to mod TH400s and Torqueflites back when. And for an all too brief moment, someone brought it back. (the writeup's link leads to a 404 error now)

https://bangshift.com/general-news/r...tch-hydro-kit/