#1  
Old 03-15-2023, 09:12 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,035
Default Make sure you check ALL your aftermarket parts.

Make sure you Check ALL your aftermarket engine parts before installation. Had a couple items show up in class the last couple days. Student bought a set of H beam Eagle Pontiac connecting rods, press fit style. All 8 rods very tight on the small end. No way they would have installed. Small ends measured .0025"-.0035. Should have been .0015"-.0018" max. Had to hone all 8 rods for size and proper press. Big ends were fine. Had a small block Chevy set of main bearings come in with #3 main clearance almost .004". The other 4 were all .0025-.0027. Defective King bearing. Ordered another set, no issue. Had a set of Federal Modgul forged pistons for a big block Chevy. 3 of the pistons had little pinched areas in the top ring land not letting the ring fit the groove properly and rotate freely. Had to file the defects with a diamond file. These are just a few examples in the last 2 days. Check everything. New doesn't mean good or correct.

The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mgarblik For This Useful Post:
  #2  
Old 03-15-2023, 09:40 AM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

I've found it necessary to resize the pins on several sets of aftermarket rods. I assume they come that way on purpose so the clearance can be set to preference.

I did however have a set of mains show up corroded beyond use for a Pontiac, but that was a few years ago.

25 years ago I had a trw piston that wouldn't fit a BBC. Turned out when the pin was pressed in they must have pressed the piston sides because the skirts were flared out and mic'd a few thou larger just in the skirt area. Of course it wouldn't fit the bore and had to send that one back.

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE

Last edited by Formulajones; 03-15-2023 at 09:53 AM.
  #3  
Old 03-15-2023, 11:27 AM
25stevem's Avatar
25stevem 25stevem is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,744
Default

Decades ago when TRW use to sell reconditioned factory Rods I bought 8 of the early forged ones and one of them was so bent form slamming the head that you could see it from 4 ft away!

__________________
I do stuff for reasons.
  #4  
Old 03-15-2023, 11:37 AM
25stevem's Avatar
25stevem 25stevem is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 1,744
Default

Wrong info in the above that I posted, it was Federal Mogul not TRW.

__________________
I do stuff for reasons.
  #5  
Old 03-16-2023, 12:56 AM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

Every set of H beams I have ever bought needed the big ends honed, tight. Until I bought Molnars.

The Following User Says Thank You to Dragncar For This Useful Post:
  #6  
Old 03-16-2023, 06:22 AM
Cliff R's Avatar
Cliff R Cliff R is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mount Vernon, Ohio 43050
Posts: 17,972
Default

All of the "no-name" offshore "H" beam rods will require a few passes with a ball hone to get the pins to go thru. Been that way since they were first introduced. I've had a couple sets of Eagle rods that didn't need honed on the small end, but most also needed opened up just a tad.

Crower rods, when I could get them were fine, and so were Oliver.

Pretty rare to see any main or rod bearings miss-marked or miss-packaged but have ran into that a couple of times.

Engine building and assembly is a meticulous and time consuming process requiring precise attention to detail. Unlike other things with this hobby in almost all cases you do NOT get the opportunity to go back and correct a mistake as it's almost always a disaster once the engine is placed in service. You can also do a perfect job on your end, and have the customer hire his next door neighbors son-in-law living in the basement to help him custom tune it "by hear" resulting in pounding the rods bearings out of it on the first run or even worse putting a couple of pistons in the oil pan. (Ask Dave at SD about that sometime).

I ALWAYS did complete builds including the carb and distributor and dyno'd them before they left here. Not really to get numbers on them, just to make sure there were no leaks, knocks, ticking, squeals or metal in the assembly (I cut open the oil filter for inspection after the dyno session).

And after all that is done you still get my exclusive "Arkansas Warranty":

IF you break it in half..............you get BOTH halves!"..........

__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran!
https://cliffshighperformance.com/
73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile),
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cliff R For This Useful Post:
  #7  
Old 03-16-2023, 08:50 AM
61-63's Avatar
61-63 61-63 is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sour Lake, Texas
Posts: 2,394
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
Make sure you Check ALL your aftermarket engine parts before installation. Had a couple items show up in class the last couple days. Student bought a set of H beam Eagle Pontiac connecting rods, press fit style. All 8 rods very tight on the small end. No way they would have installed. Small ends measured .0025"-.0035. Should have been .0015"-.0018" max. Had to hone all 8 rods for size and proper press. Big ends were fine. Had a small block Chevy set of main bearings come in with #3 main clearance almost .004". The other 4 were all .0025-.0027. Defective King bearing. Ordered another set, no issue. Had a set of Federal Modgul forged pistons for a big block Chevy. 3 of the pistons had little pinched areas in the top ring land not letting the ring fit the groove properly and rotate freely. Had to file the defects with a diamond file. These are just a few examples in the last 2 days. Check everything. New doesn't mean good or correct.
This kind of stuff is probably what's wrong with the "done" engine I'm going to have Jim Roberston go through.

  #8  
Old 03-16-2023, 09:02 AM
BILL BOWMAN1's Avatar
BILL BOWMAN1 BILL BOWMAN1 is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bear, Delaware
Posts: 1,551
Default

Yes! A friend years back put together a BBC with an Eagle rotating assembly. Spun several bearings. Upon inspection, the crank was bent.

__________________
LIFT HEAVY, LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO BE SMALL!
  #9  
Old 03-16-2023, 09:15 AM
i82much's Avatar
i82much i82much is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,786
Default

It's not just car parts, it's everything these days. Seems like every condom I buy these days is *way* too big. Anybody else having this problem?


Last edited by i82much; 03-16-2023 at 09:28 AM.
  #10  
Old 03-16-2023, 09:41 AM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
It's not just car parts, it's everything these days. Seems like every condom I buy these days is *way* too big. Anybody else having this problem?
...............

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE
The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post:
  #11  
Old 03-16-2023, 09:46 AM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BILL BOWMAN1 View Post
Yes! A friend years back put together a BBC with an Eagle rotating assembly. Spun several bearings. Upon inspection, the crank was bent.
Camshafts still show up bent, I just wonder how many people are actually checking them. That's been going on for years. About the only change I've noticed in the last couple years is how long it takes to get stuff. Parts quality has always come into question, I just never had to wait to get it, LOL.

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE
The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post:
  #12  
Old 03-16-2023, 10:10 AM
MarkS57's Avatar
MarkS57 MarkS57 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Flemington, NJ
Posts: 575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff R View Post
<snip> for brevity

Crower rods, when I could get them were fine, and so were Oliver.
I was able to secure a set of Sportsmans a few years ago for a future build. Beautiful but I'll admit to not measuring them yet. Never regretted the purchase to date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
It's not just car parts, it's everything these days. Seems like every condom I buy these days is *way* too big. Anybody else having this problem?
Reminds me of an old joke: "a young son askes his father.........." eehhh never mind...

__________________

65 Tempest, 400, TH400
86 Fiero SE 2.8
The Following User Says Thank You to MarkS57 For This Useful Post:
  #13  
Old 03-16-2023, 10:22 AM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

I bought a set of full floater Sportsmans for a SBC build about 6 years ago. Had to hone the small end for proper pin fitment. Can't remember if anything needed to be done to the big end, I'd have to check my notes.

Shucks my son just bought a brand new set of AFR heads for a build he's currently doing and they are going straight to Paul to be checked before I even think about bolting them on the engine. My guess is the springs will need either shimmed or replaced for proper pressures for the hydraulic roller he's using, even though they are supposed to be PAC hydraulic roller springs (never assume they are correct) And I'm betting Paul would prefer to do a valve job as well at a minimum since many of these new heads sometimes don't have the best valve to seat seal.

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE
The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post:
  #14  
Old 03-16-2023, 11:30 AM
hurryinhoosier62 hurryinhoosier62 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Floyd Co., IN/SE KY
Posts: 3,930
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
It's not just car parts, it's everything these days. Seems like every condom I buy these days is *way* too big. Anybody else having this problem?
You have to stop buying the “Texas mediums”

__________________
“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.”

Dr. Thomas Sowell
  #15  
Old 03-16-2023, 11:35 AM
hurryinhoosier62 hurryinhoosier62 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Floyd Co., IN/SE KY
Posts: 3,930
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formulajones View Post
I bought a set of full floater Sportsmans for a SBC build about 6 years ago. Had to hone the small end for proper pin fitment. Can't remember if anything needed to be done to the big end, I'd have to check my notes.

Shucks my son just bought a brand new set of AFR heads for a build he's currently doing and they are going straight to Paul to be checked before I even think about bolting them on the engine. My guess is the springs will need either shimmed or replaced for proper pressures for the hydraulic roller he's using, even though they are supposed to be PAC hydraulic roller springs (never assume they are correct) And I'm betting Paul would prefer to do a valve job as well at a minimum since many of these new heads sometimes don't have the best valve to seat seal.
The best phrase I ever heard: “never assume”. There are too many internal engine parts that are NOT produced in the U.S. anymore. Covid just increased the number of parts produced outside the U.S. I was taught to never assume a part is “good” just because it’s new. I mic every part before I do the initial cleaning.

__________________
“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.”

Dr. Thomas Sowell
  #16  
Old 03-16-2023, 12:10 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,035
Default

AFR used to be among the better aftermarket cylinder head companies as far as quality control. But since they were recently bought by Taglich Private Equity, a group that specializes in "novelty socks and salsa products", I would check them carefully.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mgarblik For This Useful Post:
  #17  
Old 03-16-2023, 12:21 PM
Vid's Avatar
Vid Vid is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 290
Default

Bent cranks and cams, sure they were arrow straight when they left Butler and Bullet, but then the UPS/FedEx truck picked them up and subjected them to a thousand plus miles of loading docks, conveyor belts and handlers that simply don’t care what’s in that heavy box.

Ironically I’m starting my motor assembly this weekend, so this is exactly the thread I should be reading because it scares the (four letter word of your choice) out of me. You know I’m going to triple check EVERYTHING. I would have anyway, but now I’ll do it with an increased heart rate and a sweaty brow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Following User Says Thank You to Vid For This Useful Post:
  #18  
Old 03-16-2023, 01:10 PM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
AFR used to be among the better aftermarket cylinder head companies as far as quality control. But since they were recently bought by Taglich Private Equity, a group that specializes in "novelty socks and salsa products", I would check them carefully.
I've had mishaps with AFR back more than 20 years ago when they were still privately owned. It's a long story but in a nutshell, they conversed with Godbold about a custom camshaft for my 454 and were supposed to install the proper hydraulic roller spring on the AFR 305's that Godbold recommended. Turned out they instead, after talking to Godbold and specifying the camshaft to be ground, and then talking to me about the cam setup, they still installed solid roller springs with 275 lbs. on the seat.

So yeah, even back then they still made mistakes.

However I feel they are still one of the best heads on the market and I'll continue to use them. I just don't trust the parts or the person assembling them. So I always have this stuff checked.

As it stands right now, some of their heads are cast over seas but assembled and machined here in the states, while some of their other lines of heads are still cast here in the states. It's kind of a mixed bag and it's difficult to stay on top of which is which.

Just an FYI since it was brought up, I think Brodix is one of the only head manufactures left that is still privately owned AND they cast their own stuff in house. I can't think of another off the top of my head.
Brodix, another great cylinder head by the way.

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE

Last edited by Formulajones; 03-16-2023 at 01:22 PM.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post:
  #19  
Old 03-16-2023, 01:24 PM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid View Post
Bent cranks and cams, sure they were arrow straight when they left Butler and Bullet, but then the UPS/FedEx truck picked them up and subjected them to a thousand plus miles of loading docks, conveyor belts and handlers that simply don’t care what’s in that heavy box.

Ironically I’m starting my motor assembly this weekend, so this is exactly the thread I should be reading because it scares the (four letter word of your choice) out of me. You know I’m going to triple check EVERYTHING. I would have anyway, but now I’ll do it with an increased heart rate and a sweaty brow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Shucks you're in Reno, you can just buzz over to Summit in Sparks and save at least some of the shipping worries

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE
The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post:
  #20  
Old 03-16-2023, 04:26 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

Years ago I bought one of the first Eagle cast stroker cranks for 450$ and sent it to Dan. It was bent .004 and had .001 tapper on the jornals, not to mention the very rough thrust surface. So I had his crank guy straighten it, grind it .010 and polish the thrust surface. So I have 800$ into as cast crank (2 actually)
Cut my loss and traded it and bought a Scat forged.

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:24 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017