#1  
Old 08-17-2022, 07:37 PM
Kingman Man Kingman Man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 35
Angry 700r4 / 4 L60 into 55 Pontiac behind 389

After all the trouble with my 55 Star Chief and the dicussion on keeping the original Slant Pan Trans or the Sucsessor Turbo Hydra (oo ), coupled with the price of gas, I have lubhed into a non computer 4L60 trans. It is missing the tailhousing, Shift arm, Trans level housing &evel stick. A couple of minor things, the adapter goes between block & trans, TV cable, and need you'all to tell me what I don't know.

Anyone else put one in larely, Where new & used parts. Especiall a driveshaft yoke, Still cannot count that high for the splines. Kingman man

__________________
1955 Star Chief 4 dr w ex w/c lift
1964 Comet 4 dr
1989 Cherokee 4 dr
2000 Dodge Grand Caravan w w/c lift
2000 Kia Sportage 4 dr
  #2  
Old 08-17-2022, 08:28 PM
Safari Larry's Avatar
Safari Larry Safari Larry is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lancaster, CA
Posts: 508
Default

Have you thought about what you are going to do for motor mounts? When you remove the installed hydramatic, you remove attachment points for the rear motor mounts. Sounds like an ambitious undertaking, especially starting with missing parts.

__________________
Larry Gorden
POCI 1956 Tech Adviser
www.PontiacSafari.com
  #3  
Old 08-18-2022, 09:18 AM
Bill Hanlon's Avatar
Bill Hanlon Bill Hanlon is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fredericksburg, TX
Posts: 2,349
Default

... but he states "behind a 389" Larry. 389 blocks had side mounts. Getting that 4L60 into the '55 X frame will be a trick.

__________________
My Pontiac is a '57 GMC with its original 347" Pontiac V8 and dual-range Hydra-Matic.
  #4  
Old 08-18-2022, 10:47 AM
Kingman Man Kingman Man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 35
Default

Had not thought about motor mounts specifically, my first thought was come here for advice. And Bill, the 4L60 IS about 6" longer, so really need advice, I have read where they are swapped into other cars. The 389 still has the front mount, If I continued to use the Strato Flight That has the rear mounts, but the price of gas!

__________________
1955 Star Chief 4 dr w ex w/c lift
1964 Comet 4 dr
1989 Cherokee 4 dr
2000 Dodge Grand Caravan w w/c lift
2000 Kia Sportage 4 dr
  #5  
Old 08-18-2022, 12:58 PM
Bill Hanlon's Avatar
Bill Hanlon Bill Hanlon is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fredericksburg, TX
Posts: 2,349
Default

If you plan to keep the front mount, you'd need to provide a set of side mounts about at the bellhousing to hold the engine in place (as Larry said). I don't know if you could hang the 4L60 on the back with no support like the HM did or if you'd need another mount there (very tight that close to the X of the frame).

And think about how much gas you could buy with the money you are going to spend of the tranny upgrade.

__________________
My Pontiac is a '57 GMC with its original 347" Pontiac V8 and dual-range Hydra-Matic.
  #6  
Old 08-18-2022, 01:51 PM
Safari Larry's Avatar
Safari Larry Safari Larry is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lancaster, CA
Posts: 508
Default

Yes Bill, the 389 has side mounts but the 55 frame does not. The frame would have to have adaptor pieces welded into each side of the frame for the side mounts. Plus a cross member under the engine should be added to prevent twisting of the frame at those mounts. Then you will need an additional crossmember at the rear transmission mount.

Then there is linkage to deal with, don't know what's involved with that but probably doable without too much headache.

I don't know if the 6" extra length will cause the trans' tail shaft to extend back into the car's X member. If it does then you probably want to scrap this idea.

I hear ya about gas prices. Weigh the cost of gas savings against the cost of this mod. If you aren't driving it a lot, it will probably take years of savings to pay for the cost of the mod.

First step for you, in my opinion, is to find out how you would do the engine mounts. There is no easy solution to that.

__________________
Larry Gorden
POCI 1956 Tech Adviser
www.PontiacSafari.com
  #7  
Old 08-18-2022, 02:02 PM
Safari Larry's Avatar
Safari Larry Safari Larry is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lancaster, CA
Posts: 508
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hanlon View Post
I don't know if you could hang the 4L60 on the back with no support like the HM did or if you'd need another mount there (very tight that close to the X of the frame).
I SUSPECT that the the 4L60 would hang off the back without another mount point. I read that the 4L16 weighs about 150 lb, which is quite a bit lighter than the Dual Range trans.

__________________
Larry Gorden
POCI 1956 Tech Adviser
www.PontiacSafari.com
  #8  
Old 08-18-2022, 04:03 PM
Kingman Man Kingman Man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safari Larry View Post
Yes Bill, the 389 has side mounts but the 55 frame does not. The frame would have to have adaptor pieces welded into each side of the frame for the side mounts. Plus a cross member under the engine should be added to prevent twisting of the frame at those mounts. Then you will need an additional crossmember at the rear transmission mount.

Then there is linkage to deal with, don't know what's involved with that but probably doable without too much headache.

I don't know if the 6" extra length will cause the trans' tail shaft to extend back into the car's X member. If it does then you probably want to scrap this idea.

I hear ya about gas prices. Weigh the cost of gas savings against the cost of this mod. If you aren't driving it a lot, it will probably take years of savings to pay for the cost of the mod.

First step for you, in my opinion, is to find out how you would do the engine mounts. There is no easy solution to that.
The 4L60 has a rearTrans mount, had not considered side mounts! Thank you for bringing to attention. This is a long term project, First is engine with original trans and mounts. Trans is Chevy so will tahe adapter as well as rebuilding,then linkage and othr small stuff to sweat oc, but doing that first. One thing as I can afford it.

__________________
1955 Star Chief 4 dr w ex w/c lift
1964 Comet 4 dr
1989 Cherokee 4 dr
2000 Dodge Grand Caravan w w/c lift
2000 Kia Sportage 4 dr
  #9  
Old 08-18-2022, 04:07 PM
Kingman Man Kingman Man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hanlon View Post
If you plan to keep the front mount, you'd need to provide a set of side mounts about at the bellhousing to hold the engine in place (as Larry said). I don't know if you could hang the 4L60 on the back with no support like the HM did or if you'd need another mount there (very tight that close to the X of the frame).

And think about how much gas you could buy with the money you are going to spend of the tranny upgrade.
And lots of thought and work. Like What HM did? Dan

__________________
1955 Star Chief 4 dr w ex w/c lift
1964 Comet 4 dr
1989 Cherokee 4 dr
2000 Dodge Grand Caravan w w/c lift
2000 Kia Sportage 4 dr
  #10  
Old 08-18-2022, 04:11 PM
Kingman Man Kingman Man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safari Larry View Post
Yes Bill, the 389 has side mounts but the 55 frame does not. The frame would have to have adaptor pieces welded into each side of the frame for the side mounts. Plus a cross member under the engine should be added to prevent twisting of the frame at those mounts. Then you will need an additional crossmember at the rear transmission mount.

Then there is linkage to deal with, don't know what's involved with that but probably doable without too much headache.

I don't know if the 6" extra length will cause the trans' tail shaft to extend back into the car's X member. If it does then you probably want to scrap this idea.

I hear ya about gas prices. Weigh the cost of gas savings against the cost of this mod. If you aren't driving it a lot, it will probably take years of savings to pay for the cost of the mod.

First step for you, in my opinion, is to find out how you would do the engine mounts. There is no easy solution to that.
Anybody here actually done this???? Know where to find parts & info?

__________________
1955 Star Chief 4 dr w ex w/c lift
1964 Comet 4 dr
1989 Cherokee 4 dr
2000 Dodge Grand Caravan w w/c lift
2000 Kia Sportage 4 dr
  #11  
Old 08-18-2022, 04:46 PM
Bill Hanlon's Avatar
Bill Hanlon Bill Hanlon is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fredericksburg, TX
Posts: 2,349
Default

"like what HM did" is in reference to the original Dual-Range HydraMatic (HM). Original HM bellhousing is in 2 pieces. The forward piece attaches to the back of the engine block and has "motor" mounts on each side. Then another piece bolts onto the forward piece. The HydraMatic transmission bolted to the back of the second bellhousing piece.

__________________
My Pontiac is a '57 GMC with its original 347" Pontiac V8 and dual-range Hydra-Matic.
  #12  
Old 08-18-2022, 07:55 PM
Kingman Man Kingman Man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hanlon View Post
"like what HM did" is in reference to the original Dual-Range HydraMatic (HM). Original HM bellhousing is in 2 pieces. The forward piece attaches to the back of the engine block and has "motor" mounts on each side. Then another piece bolts onto the forward piece. The HydraMatic transmission bolted to the back of the second bellhousing piece.
Thank you, could not figure it out and so simple.

__________________
1955 Star Chief 4 dr w ex w/c lift
1964 Comet 4 dr
1989 Cherokee 4 dr
2000 Dodge Grand Caravan w w/c lift
2000 Kia Sportage 4 dr
  #13  
Old 08-28-2022, 08:51 AM
Kingman Man Kingman Man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 35
Default

I have seen an article or 2 about doing thie, Had not planned to do it but will have to find the article, believe on "Safari" and probably on my disk.

__________________
1955 Star Chief 4 dr w ex w/c lift
1964 Comet 4 dr
1989 Cherokee 4 dr
2000 Dodge Grand Caravan w w/c lift
2000 Kia Sportage 4 dr
  #14  
Old 08-28-2022, 10:16 AM
Stuart's Avatar
Stuart Stuart is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 7,938
Default

If the goal is to save money on gas, I suspect it will take a very long time and many miles of driving to make your money back on this swap.

  #15  
Old 08-29-2022, 04:15 PM
mr67gp mr67gp is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 256
Default

What Stuart said. Saving gas is the last reason to do this swap even if you're putting 20k miles a year on the car.

__________________
Jim K in PA
1967 GP HT 428
1967 GP convert 428
1957 Chieftain 4D HT
  #16  
Old 09-09-2022, 11:39 PM
Kingman Man Kingman Man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 35
Default

Bill,

As the only one I know to answer this, As the ifo on "Safari" is only about "in car: repairs and as I would not turn my slant pan over to jest anybody. do you know of a full service manual? Dan

__________________
1955 Star Chief 4 dr w ex w/c lift
1964 Comet 4 dr
1989 Cherokee 4 dr
2000 Dodge Grand Caravan w w/c lift
2000 Kia Sportage 4 dr
  #17  
Old 09-10-2022, 07:43 AM
Bill Hanlon's Avatar
Bill Hanlon Bill Hanlon is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fredericksburg, TX
Posts: 2,349
Default

I have an original 1957 GMC Truck X-5706 Hydra-Matic manual that pretty much covers theory, maintenance and overhaul. 1957 GMC V8 engines were slightly detuned Pontiac V8s. GMC continued to use the dual-range Hydra-Matic until 1962 (Rolls-Royce until 1966). Shift points and throttle linkage setup would be different, but otherwise it would be pretty much the same. There is a 3 month old listing on eBay for two of them here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32525008155...Bk9SR8yhm_PkYA

__________________
My Pontiac is a '57 GMC with its original 347" Pontiac V8 and dual-range Hydra-Matic.

Last edited by Bill Hanlon; 09-10-2022 at 08:26 AM.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:25 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017