#61  
Old 04-07-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Blue 66
I enjoy the the production stories. Not so much the office or design staff stuff.
Here's one for Paul; a production story (...or lack thereof...):

Although I've told it enough times, I have never published this story before. However, it keeps sticking in my mind lately because of the following:

Some of you know that American Axle is currently on strike, forcing a shutdown in almost all of our GM Full Size Truck assembly plants. I was thinking about other strikes, in the past, and it made me think of this story.

I always call it (fittingly enough): "The Gasket Story".

Our '65 GTO was built early in September of 1964. There were rumblings of a strike that year, so the build of our car, a factory "demonstrator" - if you will - was hastened so that it could be out in public before the strike hit and not be trapped on GM property. As a result, Dad and I drove down on a Friday and picked the car up from the Engineering Building, complete with three 7.75 whitewalls installed, one 7.75 redline and a 7.35 whitewall for a spare. A three speed was installed in the car and the intended four speed was loose in the trunk. As expected, the following Monday the UAW went out on strike.

Naturally, we had the GTO home for about a day before Dad started tearing into it, prepping it for race usage. Heads off to be cut .030", thinner head gaskets, shimming valve springs, recurving the distributor, etc. As he started putting the car back together he went to set the intake back on and (...as we now know...) the pattern had changed from '64 to '65. He didn't have any of the "new style" intake gaskets, so he called Superior Pontiac/Cadillac in Flint and asked them if they did. They said "sure, come on down" so he went in and (...guess what...) they didn't. They had the '64 style. He informed them of the change and started calling around to find gaskets. He called Royal; same result - "yeah, we got 'em" (...they didn't...). Jesse had him call the manufacturer and he nearly had a deal finalized, saying they could send him a couple until they realized he was a private individual rather than in some "official" capacity. Dad was getting ready to get some gasket material and make his own when Jesse had a bright idea: they could get some out of the Pontiac motor plant. He had heard Jim Wangers was heading over there to do some kind of marketing presentation and, since the plant was on strike, Dad should be able to get in there and get what he needed. The deal was struck and the time set. Dad was to wear his best suit and was going to get into the plant with a "Press" pass.

Dad was supposed to meet Jim at his office one morning shortly thereafter. After sitting in the waiting room for quite awhile Jim emerged from his office; they hopped into Jim's big yellow 2+2 "School Bus" and after a quick stop for an early lunch they made it over to the entrance at the Pontiac facility. The place was awash with activity, as there are all these UAW employees out picketing in front of the plant. As they drive through the gate, Jim saw someone he knew so he stopped the car to shoot the bull with this guy. That was fine until Dad saw someone HE knew! Pretty incriminating for him to be going into a plant, while it was on strike, him in a suit, and a UAW diemaker at that! He said "Jim, get me outta here!" pulled his suitcoat up over his head and they zipped through the gate without any further incident.

Once inside, Jim took his portfolio and papers and went up to the front offices and Dad headed out to the floor. Imagine an empty plant during shutdown: lights are off, everything is quiet, just a few individuals in sitting around playing cards or table tennis in the break areas. Finally, a guy showed up on a three wheeled scooter and says "Whattya need, Slim?". Dad said "I'm the guy that needs the gaskets". So he hopped on the scooter and they wind their way back into the bowels of the plant. They pull up to a work area and, sure enough, here are baskets and baskets (...and baskets...) of gaskets. The guy hands Dad a stack about two feet high and says "How many do you need?". Dad grabbed enough to reassemble his motor plus a few extras and they got out of there. Needless to say, for a few weeks after that the local guys were calling us to see if we had intake gaskets so they could put their cars back together.

As far as our car, we had it back together shortly thereafter. By the time of the "official" introduction - "Pontiac Day" at Detroit Dragway on Sunday, September 27 - we were already tuned up and making some low 12.90 passes in B/S trim.

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  #62  
Old 04-07-2008, 03:19 PM
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I knew of a few "higher ups" in GM that did quite well racing back in the day. On of the things GM would do is ask these executives to stop racing, citing safety concerns and the concerns of organizational disruption in the event of an unfortunate racing accident.

One story like this concerns Wisconsin native Owen Snyder Jr. Owen was the Plant Planning/Launch Coordinator for the Janesville Assembly plant for many years; he was/is also a successful dirt track and sprint car racer. He was quite famous locally as a class champion, series champion and general man-about-town.

One day he got "the call" from Central Office: he was to cease racing immediately. In response, he did what any successful, able, red blooded American male would do when faced with that dilemma: he continued to race under an "assumed" name.

He even showed me newspaper clippings: "Who is this Roy Brown?" and "Brown beats Snyder's Track Record".



Incidentally, Owen's son (Owen III ) is a successful racer and entrepreneur in his own right. Owen III was "little Al's" crewchief when he won the Indy 500 in 1992 and with Eddie Cheever in 1998. I had forgotten but was reminded that World of Outlaws multi time champion Steve Kinser is Owen's son-in-law.

http://www.indy500.com/news/story.php?story_id=2719

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My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #63  
Old 04-07-2008, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT182
Great stories Keith, please keep em coming. BTW, put me down to buy the second copy of that book when it's finished.... autographed too.

I've never heard of a Holley 950CFM 3Bbl that's in the Wenzel article. What's the story with them?
They are real, this ad has some good pictures:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holle...em370039983124

  #64  
Old 04-09-2008, 11:38 AM
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Excellent thread!

Trying to keep this from getting lost in the Lobby.

Citydesk, do you have any knowledge on the engine foundry side?

Were the Engine Unit Numbers ( Motor Unit Numbers) stamped at the foundry or the assembly plant?

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  #65  
Old 04-09-2008, 12:49 PM
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Default Engine S/Ns

Thanks for your kind words and assistance.

I just spoke with a GM warehouse manager who told me that serial numbers are applied at the Foundry long before they are shipped to Assembly.

Major parts are ID'd to prevent theft but also to allow for crosscharging as the parts are conducted through each value added step.

I have another call out to someone at Powertrain Massena and he might have something really definitive when he gets back next week.

Regards
citydesk175

  #66  
Old 04-09-2008, 01:33 PM
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BY The Way

After reading the definition of the Lobby....... I wish to announce that today is another milestone birthday for me. I have stopped being 60!!!

Sigh.. I am accomplishing this by turning 61 but it is a small price to pay considering the alternative methods

Regards
CityDesk175

  #67  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:44 PM
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Happy B-day, CD175!

Moderators - please consider making this thread a "sticky"!

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  #68  
Old 04-09-2008, 06:28 PM
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Thanks for sharing! (both of you).

Best thread I think I have ever read on any Pontiac forum.

  #69  
Old 04-09-2008, 06:57 PM
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Default 1967 GTO story:

The 67 GTO that was mentioned in this thread as being used as a tire testing vehicle is true and I remember seeing it with its sidepipes, mailbox hood scoop and rear spoiler bolted to the leading edge of the hood. It was quite a sight but i guess it served its purpose.

  #70  
Old 04-09-2008, 11:18 PM
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I read one of the posted links in Keiths post that talked about X overs being performed on parts already struck when the line got out of sequence.

This one is on a 12 bolt rear (in car).
Not a X over, but re struck at some point.

A factory re-strike?
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  #71  
Old 04-09-2008, 11:55 PM
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Keith -great stories.
Guys- I had the opportunity to visit with Van Seymore a few times the year Keith and I were battling it out for the NSCA Championship in 2003. His accounts were so detailed it was amazing. I sat in Keiths motor home for a few hours that evening with Van wishing I had a recorder the whole time. Both stand up guys- not to mention great racers.Thanks again for sharing Keith.

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  #72  
Old 04-10-2008, 01:06 AM
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Hope you had a happy birthday, CityDesk!



I concur, this thread is excellent.
Need to make it a sticky or something so it won't get lost in the Lobby.

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  #73  
Old 04-10-2008, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citydesk175
Thanks for your kind words and assistance.

I just spoke with a GM warehouse manager who told me that serial numbers are applied at the Foundry long before they are shipped to Assembly.
Numbers were stamped on the engines in the Pontiac Assembly Plant on the second floor in a department refered to as the Motor Bridge. Numbers could not be stamped in the Foundry as the blocks were not milled or machined until being processed in the engine Plant #9 which was between the Assembly Plant (Plant #8) and the Foundry (Plant #6).
And yes to earlier posts...alot of tooling, equipment, parts, vehicles were damaged, lost, buried (foundry scrap), hid in scrap cars (rail cars), etc.
PMD Pontiac was a very large facility in the day...

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Old 04-10-2008, 08:21 AM
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Bump for a sticky vote.

Come on, mods - this thread is worth being made a sticky!!!

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  #75  
Old 04-10-2008, 10:35 AM
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janderson, was this 'Engine Bridge' on the 2nd floor of the engine Plant #9 or the Assembly Plant (Plant #8)?

I take it Assembly Plant (Plant #8) is where the cars for the Pontiac plant (P) were assembled like N is for Norwood.

If so, then all the engines went thru the Pontiac plant before being disbursed to all the other plants. Were they machined, fitted, and heads etc installed there also?


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  #76  
Old 04-10-2008, 02:23 PM
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Thanks guys and especially thanks to you too, Mike Davis, for the kind words.

JLHarper and I had a little conversation going offline, but there was something I forgot to mention (JL - clean some of your PM's out!) so I'll just post it here:

Back in 1986 I decided I wanted to get a new pickup truck, so I went down to my favorite Chevy dealer and ordered up a new 1987 model. I got a V6 with the RPO MY0 trans, which was a 3 speed manual with fourth gear as an overdrive (it even came with a production floor mounted Hurst shifter).

The problem was that was the timeframe when Hurst was being bought out by Mr Gasket. As a result, they weren't sure they were going to continue to build the parts and so GM put the option combination on "Stop Order".

I was pretty bummed when I found that out 'cause I thought it was a pretty slick setup. I begrudgingly started scheming "plan B", which was to order a column shifted Saginaw three speed (RPO M62 or M64) and then convert it to a four speed floor shift myself, like I had done with my 1980 pickup.

Well, one day as I was walking through the plant and passed by the motor line I noticed they had a bunch (!) of these MY0 transmissions, sitting on the floor and on pallets. I called the material office and asked "...how many of those transmissions do you think we have?". They replied they figured about 100. I suggested "don't you think we should build those out, so that we don't get charged with obsolescence or scrap fees?

They agreed and so we built (under a temporary deviation) 100 MY0 trucks for the 1987 model year (...one of which just happened to be mine...).




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'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926

Last edited by Keith Seymore; 04-10-2008 at 02:34 PM.
  #77  
Old 04-10-2008, 02:30 PM
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Incidentally, I was just reminded that my father-in-law still is driving that truck...(lol)

K

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'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #78  
Old 04-10-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore
Thanks guys and especially thanks to you too, Mike Davis, for the kind words.

JLHarper and I had a little conversation going offline, but there was something I forgot to mention so I'll just post it here:

Back in 1986 I decided I wanted to get a new pickup truck, so I went down to my favorite Chevy dealer and ordered up a new 1987 model. I got a V6 with the RPO MY0 trans, which was a 3 speed manual with fourth gear as an overdrive (it even came with a production floor mounted Hurst shifter).

The problem was that was the timeframe when Hurst was being bought out by Mr Gasket. As a result, they weren't sure they were going to continue to build the parts and so GM put the option combination on "Stop Order".

I was pretty bummed when I found that out 'cause I thought it was a pretty slick setup. I begrudgingly started scheming "plan B", which was to order a column shifted Saginaw three speed (RPO M62 or M64) and then convert it to a four speed floor shift myself, like I had done with my 1980 pickup.

Well, one day as I was walking through the plant and passed by the motor line I noticed they had a bunch (!) of these MY0 transmissions, sitting on the floor and on pallets. I called the material office and asked "...how many of those transmissions do you think we have?". They replied they figured about 100. I suggested "don't you think we should build those out, so that we don't get charged with obsolescence or scrap fees?

They agreed and so we built (under a temporary deviation) 100 MY0 trucks for the 1987 model year (...one of which just happened to be mine...).




keith, i've got an 81 with that trans in it. it's gets awesome fuel mileage. i'd like to find one to stuff in my 68gto.

mike

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  #79  
Old 04-10-2008, 03:18 PM
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Keith Seymore Keith Seymore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike nixon
keith, i've got an 81 with that trans in it. it's gets awesome fuel mileage. i'd like to find one to stuff in my 68gto.

mike
When the father-in-law's truck finally dies I'll let you know -

K

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'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #80  
Old 04-10-2008, 04:22 PM
mike nixon mike nixon is offline
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cool, if it looks like the pic it may be a while tho.

mike

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