[ANDYA]

I'm getting ready to take my 69 Bird off the rotisserie in a few weeks and need to buy front springs. It will be a fast street car (500+ hp) with some trips to the track. I already have Calvert split-monos and caltracs with a 1" drop for the rear. The car has no A/C, manual steering, manual brakes and iron heads with headers.

The reason I went with the 1" drop is because of how many 1st gen f-body cars I see at shows that look too high. When asked the owners claim that these are stock replacement springs. I'm not really trying to lower the car, just give it a nice stance without seeing 2" of space between the top of the tire and the wheel lip. What I'm looking for is the wheel well lip to just cover the top of the tire. If the rear ends up either too high or too low Calvert will send you a different rear half to the split mono leafs to get the correct hieght.

What I'm trying to figure out is what front spring to buy. I've been told everything from a Hotchkis drop spring to a 6 cyl spring. Others have said that the drop springs will put the car lower than you think (more like 2") and to install stock replacement springs. Then after they settle remove them and cut a coil if necessary. I'm hoping someone here has been through this and can offer some advise on a spring they used. Also if you could post some pictures it would help. Both at stock hieght or 1" drop. Thanks for the help.

[trmjr1]

Andy,

I have done both. I had the Hotchkis 2" drop springs installed and now have stock Eaton front springs installed to meet Pure Stock Drag specs. The pics with the Hotchkis springs in the front and Eaton stock rear springs have 15" wheels with 215/65-15 on the front and 245/60-15 on the rear. The pic with stock front springs have F70-14 Redlines.

My Hotchkis springs are listed on eBay, item number 200270822626 if you are interested.

Tom

[MikeNoun]

Almost every 1st Gen Firebird I've seen sits up too high. According to the factory Pontiac Service Manual, the measurement on a 69 Bird should be 8.6" from the ground to the bottom of the rocker chrome (measurement taken right where the door meets the fender). The rear should be 8.2" from the ground to the bottom of the rocker chrome (measured where the door meets the 1/4 panel). That's not a misprint, the rear sat .4" lower than the front on these cars (that was the style back then). Personally, I prefer to have a level appearance today.

Most spring replacements are for the 69 Camaro (which sat 1" higher than the Firebird), but marketed as a Firebird spring. I think people are just so used to seeing Firebirds sit high, that they don't bother correcting the problem. But that 1" difference is actually pretty dramatic in the stance of the car. If you get your car to truly sit to factory specs, most people will say your car sits too low. If they do say that, simply show that person some original factory photos.

Most resto shops, and most people restoring their cars, use contemporary cars or other restos as examples, which frequently sit way too high. The current crop of Musclecar books we see on the shelves today are loaded with cars with incorrect stances. Reason I'm saying all this is that you may find you will need to cut 1/2 coil or so to get the right stance. It's tough to pick the right spring based on "small block" or "big block" Camaro specs, because many of us today may have a trunk mount battery, aluminum intake, headers, even aluminum heads, that will make it tough to get the right spring right out of the box.

In these photos, this is the correct 8.6" stance in the front, and went with 8.6" in the back to make it level.

[ANDYA]

Thanks for the replys and pics guys. Both cars look good and I would say about what I'm looking for. Like I said, the wheel well lips just covering the tops of the tires.

Tom, it's hard to tell from the pics but there doesn't seem to be much change between the Hotchkis spring and the stock Eaton. What is the actual difference in hieght and did you get a true 2" drop from the Hotchkis.

Mike, what spring did you finally use to get your ride hieght and did you cut a coil.

Sorry about asking specific questions, I'm hoping to get lucky and pick the right spring the first time.

[trmjr1]

Andy,

I will be back home Thursday night and can measure and take a pic with the 15's back on the car so you can compare apples to apples.

Tom

[guccieng]

i recommend the global west s-41's. they are 500 lbs/inch rate and specific for the firebird. i have the gw's on my bird (see signature) and the camaro-specific for my small block. they advertise a 1" drop, and look and ride wonderfully.

[MikeNoun]

Andy, I still have the original springs in my 69 Firebird. It used to sit perfect 15 years ago when it was all stock, then I had to start messing with it. Aluminum radiator, aluminum intake, battery in the trunk, aluminum heads, headers, and an aluminum water pump, I took about 120 lbs off the nose. I cut one coil off the front springs, and that brought the nose down 1".

[ANDYA]

Tom, any additional info on the Hotchkis 2" drop springs would be great. Also, how much weight is on your front end (A/C, power steering, alum radiator, etc)

Mike, my front end is also going to be light and that's why I'm tempted to go with a drop spring if I'm going to end up cutting a coil off a stock spring anyway.

As per guccieng"s recommendation I looked into the Global West 1" drop spring. According tp their website the springs are designed for a 1" drop max. Going to call them up for more info.

Once again, thank you all for the replys.

Andy

[trmjr1]

Andy,

I am out of town on business so I can't get any measurements for you. Will be back next weekend. My car is an original 400 convertible A/C car. The anti-vibration cocktail shakers are installed at all 4 corners but I removed the A/C compressor, condenser and evaporator and case and replaced with an American Graffiti case. I am running power steering and stock 4 core radiator.

Tom

[prostreet64]

Andy, if you look at the pic of the Bird in our profile you will get an idea of what 2" lower in the front looks like. We set out to achieve a 1" drop but ended up with 2" after cutting too much off the 6-cyl. springs. As others have said it is an imprecise science, with all the different combos of various parts that add or reduce weight to the front end.

[amcmike]

For my Firebird front springs, I went to NPD C-7412-129. Since I was able to go there in person, they let me look at three different "factory replacement" springs (there are about 20 different p/n's depending on year, engine size, and convertible vs. coupe). All had the same wire diameter (measured with calipers) and overall diameter, just different number of coils. So I picked the least number of coils to get the stiffest/lowest. It also turned out to be the cheapest (less metal I guess) at about $60/set. I calculated the rate to be around somewhere between 375 and 400 lbs/inch for my Firebird if I remember correctly. Ride height came exactly to where I wanted it. With solid body bushings (no "relaxation" compared to rubber or poly) it has 2.5" of clearance from top of tire to wheelwell (BUT mine is a '68, so the lip is curved instead of flattenend). This is after 3 years time, so they have settled a little. I think for a '69 it would be close to flush.

Before you start cutting springs remember.... you can always cut them shorter, but you can't cut them longer.

P.S. My 'vert has iron heads, aluminum intake, aluminum radiator, cocktail shakers, battery in stock location, headers, ps, pb, and no A/C.

[68FB400]

I went through this a few years ago. I went with the Hotchkis (for Pontiac) up front and have been very happy.
Here's a link to the thread I did going from new stock springs, to cut stock springs to the Hotchkis. If cutting coils, remember on 1st gen's you must cut a full coil, not 1/2.

As far as weight goes, mine used to be an a/c car but removed all and went with American Graffiti cover, iron heads, headers, power steering, 4 core radiator.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=382725

[guccieng]

hotchkis springs are chebby small block, not pontiac specific (close enough for them). global west has different springs for sbc, bbc, and pontiac.

[RAJ7395]

Why not go with adjustable coil overs? They are infinetly adjustable so as you make mods you can easily adjust the stance back to where you want it. You simiply lower or raise the lower spring mounting flange with a tool. Takes only a couple minutes per side.

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by RAJ7395

Why not go with adjustable coil overs? They are infinetly adjustable so as you make mods you can easily adjust the stance back to where you want it. You simiply lower or raise the lower spring mounting flange with a tool. Takes only a couple minutes per side.

dont you have to cut the a arm or use a tubular one and cut the frame pocket to have those fit?

[amcmike]

Originally Posted by Cammer-6

dont you have to cut the a arm or use a tubular one and cut the frame pocket to have those fit?

They have ones that bolt in, but with stock arms it's not a good idea. Since the bottom of the coil is supported by the shock, all that load is transferred to the lower mounting points of the shock in the arm. So if it's not reinforced at that point your putting a lot of load on an area not designed for it.

[RAJ7395]

No frame mods required but you do have to make a cut out the lower A-arm to provide clearance for a new shock mounting bracket. The new bracket acts as a doubler plate to more evenly distribute load and has provisions for the shock to be installed with a much large bolt that is in double shear. This setup really beefed up the joint between the shock and a-arm. For added strength, I welded my brackets on.

[Firebirdman0]

I have a 1968 firebird with a very similar front weight as yours iron headed iron block 455. I had the exact same issue as you did when it came time to pick springs, i actually went with the reccomended ones from PST since i used them for my front end kit and i did not like the ride quality or the way it sat at all, way to high. There is 2 different springs from hotchkis for our cars the small block, or camaro drop springs, and the big block. Hotchkis tends to reccomend the big blocks for our cars, why i dont know a pontiac motor is not that much heavier then a small block chevy thanks to the nickel content. I went with the small block springs and absolutely loved the ride height it gave it, not to low and not to high, i went with the hotchkis lowering multi leafs in the rear and the car sits almost perfectly level with maybe a half inch higher in the rear and rides great. What i did notice though was how much the ride height changed when i did the subframe bushings in the front it raised the body at least a solid inch, which is what gave my car a really nice level look. The only down side to the hotchkis setup is the high spring rate means you will definitly need some good shocks to make up for it but will end up with a stout looking and feeling ride, at least i did.

[rdl]

Mike Noun:

I was wondering if I could pick your brain regarding your experience in altering front spring height on my '69 Firebird (you claimed to have done the same thing to your stock appearing 'bird in this older thread I found). My car has the original coil springs. The driver side has sagged somewhat with time, and now is actually at the correct curb height (measured at the rocker in accordance with the engineering sheets). The passenger side is high (measuring about 1" higher than the driver side when measured at the fender flat just above the tire). You indicated in your post that you cut one full coil on both sides to lower the 'nose' by one inch. If I wanted to lower just the passenger side 1" at the fender flat measuring point, do you suppose I'd be able to do so with the same one coil cut on the passenger spring only? Thanks for any insights you can offer.

Rob

[Kenth]

Have you considered switching LH and RH front springs?