#1  
Old 01-27-2023, 11:43 PM
GoreMaker GoreMaker is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Georgia, VT
Posts: 291
Default Ram Air Manifolds Hardware

I'm installing a set of reproduction Ram Air cast exhaust headers on my 1977 Trans Am. I got the appropriate reproduction hardware from Inline Tube, but I'm not terribly happy with these bolts. Some are fine, but many don't engage much thread at all. The bolts are just too short. I wouldn't mind in cast iron heads, but these are going in aluminum heads. Most of the threaded holes can accommodate 3/4" of thread engagement, except for the two outer holes on each head which are limited to 1/2". But some of the bolts barely stick out past the headers by 1/4". I'm almost guaranteed to destroy the threads when I try to tighten those. Since there's only 4/5 bolts per manifold, it feels like I should be getting a lot more holding strength from each bolt than 1/4" of thread engagement in aluminum provides.

Are there studs available that could work for this? Then I could grab all the threads in every hole and not worry about stripping them. But since there's 3 significantly different bolt lengths involved, I'm not sure what kind of kit would be adequate.

  #2  
Old 01-27-2023, 11:52 PM
b-man's Avatar
b-man b-man is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 16,410
Default

Measure the ideal bolt lengths for each location and go shopping. If you can’t find the exact length bolt you need for some then buy longer ones and cut them down, carefully chamfering and deburring the cut ends.

Forget about using studs.

Your issue is not uncommon, i had to go through exactly what I described when putting a new set of RARE 1967 GTO manifolds on one of my cars. The hardware they sent was poorly chosen.

__________________
1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42
1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56
2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23
The Following User Says Thank You to b-man For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old 01-28-2023, 12:16 AM
b-man's Avatar
b-man b-man is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 16,410
Default

You’re most likely to find bolts in half-inch increments at most hardware outlets, even finding them in quarter inch increments isn’t quite right for some that are needed.

Cut them to the proper length to get as much thread engagement as possible without bottoming the bolts. Keep in mind the end bolts intersect the head bolt holes.

__________________
1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42
1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56
2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23
  #4  
Old 01-28-2023, 12:20 AM
GoreMaker GoreMaker is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Georgia, VT
Posts: 291
Default

ah, that would explain why they're shallower than the others

  #5  
Old 01-29-2023, 11:12 AM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,541
Default

Fastenal has Grade 8s in all lengths.

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #6  
Old 01-29-2023, 03:09 PM
694.1 694.1 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SE WI
Posts: 1,366
Default

Pretty indicting that they cannot get bolts right...

__________________
"At no time did we exceed 175 mph.”
Dan Gurney's truthful response to his and Brock Yate's winning of the first ever Cannonball Baker Sea-to-Shining Sea...

Still have my 1st Firebird
7th Firebird
57 Starchief
  #7  
Old 01-29-2023, 03:35 PM
GoreMaker GoreMaker is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Georgia, VT
Posts: 291
Default

I think the issue is that the different Ram Air manifold castings all have varying heights for the bolt holes. And considering the dearth of quality castings from RARE and Max Performance this last year, the crappy Chinese castings that remain are significantly worse in that regard. I bet if I were using OEM castings, the bolts would all be fine. These bolts are supposed to be factory reproductions, and there's no way the factory used 5+ different lengths of bolts for one pair of headers. 3 different lengths is already more than I would expect for most exhaust manifolds.

  #8  
Old 01-30-2023, 09:05 AM
OCMDGTO's Avatar
OCMDGTO OCMDGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ocean City Md
Posts: 1,194
Default

Gore I used a set of bolts from Ames on mine with no issues. RARE oversized D ports and aluminum E heads. I think there were 3 different lengths

__________________
Chris D
69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60'
  #9  
Old 01-30-2023, 09:11 AM
GoreMaker GoreMaker is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Georgia, VT
Posts: 291
Default

Yeah I can't get the RARE manifolds anymore. I've been on the waiting list for over a year now, and I was one of the first added to the waiting list after the last batch. I had to settle for the cheap Chinese manifolds, which is likely a large part of my issue. I don't think the Ames bolts would be any different than the ones from Inline Tube

  #10  
Old 01-30-2023, 05:36 PM
ZeGermanHam's Avatar
ZeGermanHam ZeGermanHam is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,924
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreMaker View Post
Yeah I can't get the RARE manifolds anymore. I've been on the waiting list for over a year now, and I was one of the first added to the waiting list after the last batch. I had to settle for the cheap Chinese manifolds, which is likely a large part of my issue. I don't think the Ames bolts would be any different than the ones from Inline Tube
Not surprised to read this. I had an order placed with them for over a year and a half, and was constantly told that my manifolds were in the next batch and would ship by the end of the month, for month after month. They never materialized, so I had to cancel the order. Frustrating.

__________________

1966 Pontiac GTO (restoration thread)
1998 BMW 328is (track rat)
2023 Subaru Crosstrek Limited (daily)
View my photos: Caught in the Wild
  #11  
Old 01-30-2023, 05:39 PM
GoreMaker GoreMaker is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Georgia, VT
Posts: 291
Default

Yep, that's pretty much how it's been going non-stop. My order is still "pending" after over a year, but I bought cheap Chinese castings anyways and took a grinder to them to get them looking somewhat reasonable. I'm getting the impression that Paul is winding down his business. Lots of products disappearing from the web site forever. But I wish he'd stop claiming the headers are "just around the corner". At this point, it's more insulting than anything else.

  #12  
Old 01-30-2023, 09:05 PM
66sprint6 66sprint6 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,204
Default

I also have the Ram Air IV manifolds and the bolts that I purchased for the application seemed either too long or too short, no matter how I shuffled them. I bought the manifolds used, so origin unknown. I did not install them.

  #13  
Old 01-31-2023, 12:14 PM
ZeGermanHam's Avatar
ZeGermanHam ZeGermanHam is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,924
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreMaker View Post
But I wish he'd stop claiming the headers are "just around the corner". At this point, it's more insulting than anything else.
This is what drove me absolutely nuts. It's crazy making to be told that time after time and have it never be true.

__________________

1966 Pontiac GTO (restoration thread)
1998 BMW 328is (track rat)
2023 Subaru Crosstrek Limited (daily)
View my photos: Caught in the Wild
The Following User Says Thank You to ZeGermanHam For This Useful Post:
  #14  
Old 02-01-2023, 10:25 AM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreMaker View Post
Yep, that's pretty much how it's been going non-stop. My order is still "pending" after over a year, but I bought cheap Chinese castings anyways and took a grinder to them to get them looking somewhat reasonable. I'm getting the impression that Paul is winding down his business. Lots of products disappearing from the web site forever. But I wish he'd stop claiming the headers are "just around the corner". At this point, it's more insulting than anything else.
I was wondering the same thing. He moved out here about a year ago or more, into a building that I happen to drive by daily. He never did put any kind of business sign out front and his truck was only there hit and miss. Now there seems to be a different name on the building that I don't recall seeing before and I haven't seen his truck there in quite a long time, but there has been a couple different cars parked out front.

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE
  #15  
Old 02-01-2023, 10:28 AM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66sprint6 View Post
I also have the Ram Air IV manifolds and the bolts that I purchased for the application seemed either too long or too short, no matter how I shuffled them. I bought the manifolds used, so origin unknown. I did not install them.
I've found recently that the bolt kits that some of these suppliers sell are not correct. I had to get a set the other day for RA D-port manifolds and they all came in the same length

Apparently they aren't aware of the differences. Better off going to the hardware store and piece meal it. That's what I ended up doing. Had a nice selection of black phosphate bolts that looked the part.

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE
  #16  
Old 02-03-2023, 07:28 AM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formulajones View Post
I was wondering the same thing. He moved out here about a year ago or more, into a building that I happen to drive by daily. He never did put any kind of business sign out front and his truck was only there hit and miss. Now there seems to be a different name on the building that I don't recall seeing before and I haven't seen his truck there in quite a long time, but there has been a couple different cars parked out front.
Scratch the sign comment. Still no sign on the building when I drove by yesterday.

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE
  #17  
Old 02-03-2023, 05:47 PM
GoreMaker GoreMaker is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Georgia, VT
Posts: 291
Default

I ended up using studs. It worked remarkably well. I was able to find the perfect lengths of studs to replace each bolt, with the exception of the lone short bolt. That one required 2 washers to make it work:




It was surprisingly not too expensive. I already had the appropriate 3/8-20 nuts and 3/8" washers on hand, so it was just getting 9 individual studs (2x 3.5", 6x 2.75", 1x 2.160"). If I could find a 2" stud instead of that 2.160", that would've been perfect, but the longer one works fine with the extra washer.

The Following User Says Thank You to GoreMaker For This Useful Post:
  #18  
Old 02-03-2023, 06:14 PM
b-man's Avatar
b-man b-man is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sunny So Cal
Posts: 16,410
Default

On the engine stand the studs work great.

Getting the manifolds off and on with the engine in the car is a whole ‘nother thing.

__________________
1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42
1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56
2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23
  #19  
Old 02-03-2023, 06:19 PM
GoreMaker GoreMaker is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Georgia, VT
Posts: 291
Default

The studs come right out, they're all broached for an allen key and I used anti-seize on all of them.

  #20  
Old 02-10-2023, 08:06 PM
tempest1964's Avatar
tempest1964 tempest1964 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Indianapolis,Indiana
Posts: 1,465
Default

So I just read thru all this and there just seems to be a lot of speculation. So I googled ‘contact Ram Air Restorations Arizona’ and got a phone number. So I called it. Paul answered. We spoke for about 20 minutes. I told him I was watching his web site, waiting for the 64-67 o/s d-port manifolds. He explained that during Covid, the foundry he had been dealing with for years dropped him. Then he found a foundry in the panhandle of Texas and had everything set up. And the head engineer overseeing his manifolds died. Now he has found a third place. At this time he has 300 left bank manifolds and is waiting on the right bank castings. He has also received shipments of other castings that he is currently batch machining on his Mazak machine centers. I am an optimist so I choose to believe he has had some supplier issues. I see it every day at my employer. So I put my order in. Castings are tentatively due mid-April. Fingers crossed.

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:40 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017