[nmoreilly]

Anyone offer some guidance on the correct body panel gaps / measurements for a 69 coupe ? I have checked GTOAA judging guidelines but there are no specifics

Thanks in advance

Noel

[marxjunk]

best you can get...thats all you can do

they where sloppy..some where tight some where loose..some where ok some where bad..

you will never get 69 panels to fit like 2017 cars, unless you slice and dice the panels..

ive been lucky, and can get decent gaps..nice and straight, not necessarily tight..

someone once told me 3/16 was the gap Pontiac shot for, and rarely have i seen it..and surely not every gap was the same..

[nmoreilly]

Originally Posted by marxjunk

best you can get...thats all you can do

they where sloppy..some where tight some where loose..some where ok some where bad..

you will never get 69 panels to fit like 2017 cars, unless you slice and dice the panels..

ive been lucky, and can get decent gaps..nice and straight, not necessarily tight..

someone once told me 3/16 was the gap Pontiac shot for, and rarely have i seen it..and surely not every gap was the same..

Thanks and good to know, but it is tolerated in judging ?

[marxjunk]

find a 69 body by fisher manual..it talks about gaps, ride height etc..im sure it would be the bench mark for judging..

[nmoreilly]

Originally Posted by marxjunk

find a 69 body by fisher manual..it talks about gaps, ride height etc..im sure it would be the bench mark for judging..

Thanks, can you share any pictures of what you have done ?

[north]

The shop manual, fisher body manual and assembly manual (all available in reprint) cover all the various body panel and bumper tolerances.

While never perfect most 69 GM's had pretty consistent body fit and a hit free, rust free car can be made to fit as good as new (which wasn't perfect). Some higher buck restos grind and weld panels to perfect the panel fit which looks great but could be argued is incorrect.

Modern cars do have tighter panel fitment thanks to tighter manufacturing tolerances and more rigid bodies less prone to flex. A 60's car with gaps less than an 1/8" are prone to rubbing and chipping from body movement.

[GOAT WHORE]

We tried to make all the gaps perfect. Mike says you shoot for perfection and accept the results.... Or something like that!

[north]

sweet fit!

[nmoreilly]

Originally Posted by north

sweet fit!

Ditto

[judger69]

Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE

We tried to make all the gaps perfect. Mike says you shoot for perfection and accept the results.... Or something like that!

That looks fantastic Greg !! Great job (yet again!!)

[marxjunk]

places like eastwood, actually sell a tool tha slips over and edge and helps set the gaps..in a few thicknesses..building a car they are usefull, buying one..well..theyare what they are..

Gregs is about what ive been able to accomplish..i have swapped doors and gotten better from one door to another...

[gtohurstjudge]

I've owned my car since it was two years old, and it was built in
the Arlington assembly plant. From the factory it had horrible panel gaps,
particularly on the rear quarter panels, which were welded on crooked on both
sides. Over the years I have improved the gaps when I was repainting it, but
the gaps still aren't as good as I would like, but nobody seems to notice them ....
it wins lots of Best of Show and Best paint awards although it has the worst gaps of all my old cars that I own.

[north]

Even when the factory gaps are bad they still look factory, different than a rusty or smashed car that has that awful "been to a bodyshop" look!

My Southgate Bonneville has all kinds of bad fit issues related to the factory welding in the drivers side inner fender not quite right. I have a hole big enough to slide in 3 fingers at the back of the wheel opening where the quarter, trunk floor extension and inner fender meet. Thank God it was Los Angeles garage kept most of its life or that hole would have let the back of the quarter rot in no time. It also had one of the trunk floor brace welds that was too hot that melted a pencil sized hole through the trunk pan. If this car had been driven in the rain or worse in snow the trunk pan would have dissolved in record time. Thankfully it led a life that it never had water get in the trunk.

A classic example of GM-UAW craftsmanship is the rear seat brace on my Fremont built GTO ragtop. The drivers side panel ended up in front of instead of behind the inner fender bracket so they "fixed" it with a sledgehammer and lots of stick welding. I posted a pic of the opposing side to show the difference.

[nmoreilly]

Interesting stuff, thanks guys. I guess what's not entirely clear is when a car is being judged, what are they looking for ? The factory imperfections of nice tight gaps that looks great but perhaps overrestored. Why for example would you get dinged for not having certain "correct" components and also lost points for "factory" body gaps ?

[gtohurstjudge]

If your car has really lousy panel gaps from the factory, you will
probably get dinged in GTOAA point judging or in ISCA Autorama judging.
The assumption is that if you have restored the car, you should have fixed those factory problems. The standard for judging in these venues is much higher than a factory build that was welded together at beer thirty on a Monday.

[bluejudge]

Nice job Goat Whore!!!

[charles bledsoe]

Where would one go to learn how to attain the best body gaps possible? Is there a book someone can recommend? I need to put back on the front clip of the 69 GTO after I disassembled it for detailing and engine re-paint. I have never done this before and am not a body man by trade.
Thanks.

CB

[north]

If your doghouse is original and straight without panel replacement and you have a hit free frame then you are 80% home free.

The trick is to start at the back of the door and work forward. Start by hanging your doors evenly along the rocker and 1/4 panel. Adjust the front of the doors so that you have gentle contact of the door weather strip to the door jam and cowl. This is critical because it establishes the fender to hood gap.

Loudly mount the rad support to the frame. Next hang your fenders loosely to have a true square hood opening. Consult the shop and body manuals for the factory specs on various panel gaps and alignments.

Install the valance with smooth flush fit to fenders. Install hood (see shop manual for hood set back relative to fender placement). Experiment with the hinge adjustment to get proper hood fit (always install all rubber stoppers before attempting fit), hinge adjustment is a bit counterintuitive.

This should give you the right size perimeter to tweak your nose to match. The endura can be really tough to make fit but you want to at least have the right reference point by having properly fitted hood, fenders and valence..

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

If your car has really lousy panel gaps from the factory, you will
probably get dinged in GTOAA point judging or in ISCA Autorama judging.
The assumption is that if you have restored the car, you should have fixed those factory problems. The standard for judging in these venues is much higher than a factory build that was welded together at beer thirty on a Monday.

I think restored cars are expected to have the gaps more uniform than the factory produced. The factory gaps weren't that great from what many have said here and judging from the photos you see of original cars back in their day. If you're looking for an original look, do the best you can. So few originals left anymore it is hard to find one to compare your work too. It seems though many of those GTOAA judges are really bad when it comes to knowledge of what is correct and what isn't. I've seen many of them post on here and Facebook over the years with opinions that disputed many of the respected authors in the Pontiac books I have in my library. Do your research and be careful on what you read on the net as much of it is garbage.

[ilo]

I found these pictures online years ago... 1968 GTO day one photos...
check out the valence to Endura fitment ...