#21  
Old 04-05-2021, 03:35 AM
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I will have a few extra pieces to experiment with before I go ahead with it. Soldering is a good idea, would be plenty strong. Where it's broken it will be under a lot of twisting force, not sure I trust the clamps to hold it.

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Old 04-05-2021, 09:59 AM
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Good luck, let me know what you learn.

Pb-free or Sn/Pb solder won't hold much static stress which is why the wire-wrap is the key. If you can get steel wire to take solder easily (plated?) it would be even stronger. Silver solder or other high-temp solder would add even more strength. The upholstery wire won't weaken significantly at soldering temperatures.

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Old 04-05-2021, 01:17 PM
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I've got a wide selection of soldering supplies here, will try it with silver solder if TIG with silicon bronze doesn't work out. I have six one foot pieces of 1/8" spring steel coming that should be here today.

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Old 04-06-2021, 03:55 AM
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I went ahead and gave it a shot TIG welding ... do what you know best and all that. Used 25 amp, DC, pulsed a 4/sec ... just got it hot enough to fuse the SiBr rod. On some test pieces I didn't see any degradation in spring'ness or any tendency to crack with bending ... but I have no doubt the repair won't last as long as the original spring did. I did give it plenty of overlap with the old spring to give it some additional strength.




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  #25  
Old 04-06-2021, 10:58 AM
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Ahhhh!!! you were brazing and not melting the steel wire. I misunderstood.
That joint looks great and should work well.

Do you know the melting temperature of your rod? It may be hot enough to temper the upholstery wire but the stress where you joined those probably isn't high enough to cause it to bend even if it was weaker. Anything over about 500F will soften the steel to some degree. I have no idea how a joint like that will affect fatigue life but the stress can't be high enough where you made that joint to cause any concern. It simply isn't constrained enough to be highly stressed at that location.

I'd be curious to see a test where you join pieces the same way and then force them to fail...one in torsion and one bending. This will hopefully build your confidence.

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Old 04-06-2021, 10:59 AM
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That looks very good. Now, you could wrap it the entire length and just give it a spot weld at each end to hold it... Or even a metal band crimped over the repair..if you're worried that it might break that is...

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Old 04-06-2021, 01:58 PM
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Shiny ... yes, I should have specified TIG braze, not weld. It still gets pretty hot, probably 1100 degrees or more. The larger joint prevented it from cooling really fast. If it's going to break it won't break at the weld, it will break where the replacement wire enters the first clip in the seat frame. In my previous experiences with SiBr, much like a normal weld it usually bends the base metal long before the weld fails ... however it is only a 30,000 psi material.

I'm trying to avoid the spot weld as I'm afraid it would create too much of a concentrated spot on the wire with diminished "springyness" Might go ahead and throw a metal band on that end though, couldn't hurt.

Old timers would probably laugh at our over analysis of this


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  #28  
Old 04-06-2021, 07:27 PM
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Ha! The good news is you didn't suffer paralysis from your analysis.

No question you tempered the wire but it won't break and unlikely it will bend there even with lost strength.

Spring applications are very demanding and tricky to design. You are wise to approach it with some thought!

One of my ex-employers brought in a consultant to teach us about personality types and teamwork. We were told there were those that do-think-do and those that think-do-think. I always felt like I was a think-do-think in a world of do-think-dos. Sometimes, it just felt like being in a world of do-dos but that's a different thread.

Always enjoy your posts and admire your handiwork.. thanks for sharing.

Mike

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Old 04-06-2021, 08:00 PM
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Too often I end up think, think think do, then think I do'ed it wrong

Got the seat covered to day, looking good. Now I have to start on the seat backs, which I imagined would be easier ... but jeez, they were a B to take apart, numerous hog rings in places that seem impossible to reach.

A couple more tips for DIY. If you are having problems attached the seat gussets to the listing wire in the grooves .... First, replace the paper "wire" on the covers with paper covered wire, then you can use lock wire to thread over the seat wire push it through under the seat on either side of the listing wire in the springs and use lock wire pliers to pull the two together so they will be easier to hog ring.

Osborn Hog Ring pliers ... very nice quality, but they totally suck for reaching into tight places. First of all the ends are blunt, the more you push into a tight spot, the more they push what you are wanting to clamp out of the way. Next they hold the ring way to far back from the tip of the plier so there is no "reach" from the ring.

I struggled terribly with them until I took them to the belt sander and shaped the tips ... shaved off the end so the rings are way closer to the tip, shaved down the blunt ends to smooth curves so they would slide between things instead of pushing things.

Plenty of meat on them you can remove, they gotta be about 50 times stronger than they need to be.

Like using a different tool, hardly ever miss grabbing a listing wire now.

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Old 04-08-2021, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dataway View Post
Too often I end up think, think think do, then think I do'ed it wrong

Got the seat covered to day, looking good. Now I have to start on the seat backs, which I imagined would be easier ... but jeez, they were a B to take apart, numerous hog rings in places that seem impossible to reach.

A couple more tips for DIY. If you are having problems attached the seat gussets to the listing wire in the grooves .... First, replace the paper "wire" on the covers with paper covered wire, then you can use lock wire to thread over the seat wire push it through under the seat on either side of the listing wire in the springs and use lock wire pliers to pull the two together so they will be easier to hog ring.

Osborn Hog Ring pliers ... very nice quality, but they totally suck for reaching into tight places. First of all the ends are blunt, the more you push into a tight spot, the more they push what you are wanting to clamp out of the way. Next they hold the ring way to far back from the tip of the plier so there is no "reach" from the ring.

I struggled terribly with them until I took them to the belt sander and shaped the tips ... shaved off the end so the rings are way closer to the tip, shaved down the blunt ends to smooth curves so they would slide between things instead of pushing things.

Plenty of meat on them you can remove, they gotta be about 50 times stronger than they need to be.

Like using a different tool, hardly ever miss grabbing a listing wire now.
Best thing you can do is to pre cut through the bun & the padding layer under with a box knife- Enough that you can push your finger through and find/touch that rod.

If you can do that with your finger- it gets immediately easier to do with the hogring pliers.

Another mistake is to put too many hogrings on the spring side listing rod- that doesn't allow it to come up off the springs enough to hogring it. Generally i hogring every other loop so there is some give to pull it up enough to grab it with the hogring.

And yes- ALWAYS replace the cardboard or rubber listing insert with a stiffer rod! Evertime i see a GM bucket with the "waves" in the bolster tucks at a show it makes me cringe!

Good job! Keep it up!

  #31  
Old 04-08-2021, 04:18 AM
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Got the first one finished, new plastic should be here today.

Couple of small wrinkles that don't want to massage out ... haven't tried any heat yet.

Shame that about the time you get the hang of it you realize you probably won't ever do one again Thanks for all the help folks.

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  #32  
Old 04-08-2021, 08:56 AM
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That looks excellent. I had a couple of small wrinkles also that I couldn't get out right away but the Georgia summers took care of them.

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  #33  
Old 04-08-2021, 09:31 AM
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I bet you are happy with that! Pretty amazing to think you had no experience.

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Old 04-08-2021, 12:10 PM
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Great work Data!

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Old 04-08-2021, 12:15 PM
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Awesome work!!!
As others have mentioned, that little ripple near the top will disappear with some time in the sun and getting in and out of the seat a few dozen times.

  #36  
Old 04-08-2021, 01:49 PM
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Glad to hear that, I figured there was a "break-in" period

One thing that was a great help was having an extra set of hands, my wife helped me do it all ... when pulling corners over etc. have four hands pulling on four points makes things go way easier. Also seems far less likely to tear out seams when you can spread the pull over four hands.

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Old 04-08-2021, 07:00 PM
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Placed it out in the sun, and yes within 30 minutes there was an improvement.

Here are some photos of the seat totally finished.

The plastic is the stuff I got off ebay. I'd call it excellent. First of all, it's molded in color, not dyed, fit and grain are excellent. Color on the lower panels looks a tad light. Tremendous product for the price I think. Parts Place must have them made as the inside has their name molded into the plastic.

In the photos I am using my original trim .. could be me, but the stuff that came with the plastic was a little TOO chrome, too shiny to look right. The slightly yellowed originals sorta look better to me. The OEM trim is also a tad larger. Old trim fit on the new plastic perfectly. Keeping the new stuff in case I change my mind. Only thing missing is the bullet end caps, should be here tomorrow.

About $1000 invested in the whole project, so not bad.

Again, thanks Rambow and everyone for the information and advice.









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  #38  
Old 04-08-2021, 07:13 PM
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You may celebrate freely now.

With enthusiasm!

Looks outstanding.

The color match on the backs and bottoms is extremely good based on the photos.

Congrats on achieving such a good outcome and thanks for posting along the way.

  #39  
Old 04-08-2021, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
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.........
Shame that about the time you get the hang of it you realize you probably won't ever do one again Thanks for all the help folks.

Johnny I can send you two sets of Ď68 buckets to recover so you donít lose your touch.

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  #40  
Old 04-09-2021, 01:58 AM
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I thought I might hear that as soon as I typed my post

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