#1  
Old 05-10-2023, 06:06 PM
Terry M. Hunt Terry M. Hunt is offline
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Default 1965 Catalina 2+2 master cylinder

Looking for a replacement m/c for this car with power brakes. It seems that all the available units I’m finding feature 2 different ports to connect to the distribution block on the frame; one port points straight toward the front of the car and the second points toward the driver side fender. There is a hex head plug to block off whichever port you decide not to use. There is also a bleeder screw atop the front of the unit which appears to be used to bleed the m/c.
I’m wondering if there is a unit available that only has the port at the front and also does not have the bleeder screw on top. This is what my current unit looks like. I’m not positive this what the original m/c looked like, but it’s what I would like to find if it exists. I’m aware of the various companies that sleeve/rebuild m/c’s, but don’ t want to incur turnaround times and the prices I’ve seen quoted for these over the years. Where can I find the style I’ve described?

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Old 05-10-2023, 06:51 PM
Mr. G Mr. G is offline
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I looked this up which I found through Summit Racing. Centric Parts Master cylinder Part# ceb-130-62010. it looks like what you described but not sure. Came up when I searched 1965 Pontiac Bonneville master cylinder.

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Old 05-10-2023, 09:49 PM
Terry M. Hunt Terry M. Hunt is offline
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Default 1965 Catalina

I’ll check out this Centric piece. Any other ideas from anyone else?

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Old 05-12-2023, 10:29 PM
Goatracer1 Goatracer1 is offline
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Do you have your original master cylinder? If so buy a rebuild kit and rebuild it.

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Old 05-16-2023, 09:25 PM
Terry M. Hunt Terry M. Hunt is offline
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Default 1965 Catalina 2+ 2 master cylinder

I goofed. Existing master on my car is a 2 port design. Got confused looking at my other cars. Found one at NAPA.
That’s the good news. Bad news is that the new master has an insert in the box outlining the need to bench bleed the master and illustrating 2 different ways to do so.
HOWEVER box also contains a four inch square piece of paper printed to look like a stop sign which tells me NOT to bench bleed the master. Trying to attach a photo of this.
Spent long time on phone to various NAPA Cust service numbers trying to resolve this confusion but never reached anybody.

Any ideas why the “Don’t bleed” warning is there?
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Old 05-17-2023, 08:17 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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That is a really interesting warning. After thinking this thing through, the only thing that makes sense is a "cover their Azz", warning. If you think about it, this tiny, single piston MC is the ONLY item making any brake pressure. If you were to simply bench bleed it, bolt it on and go for a drive, that first brake apply, or second or third would certainly move some air into one or more of the wheel cylinders. Then you could have no brakes. By telling you , "YOU MUST BLEED ON THE CAR", they are covering their butts by making sure the entire system is bled and no air is in the system. Also, if you think about it, how does the master cylinder know if it's on the car or not? How would it know if you are pushing the piston with a large phillips screwdriver or your foot through the pedal assembly?

If it were me, I would put the MC on the car and fill it up. Then open the right rear wheel cylinder bleeder screw and put a pan under it and let it gravity bleed for 15 minutes after it begins to drip. Make sure the reservoir never goes dry. This first wheel could take up to 1/2 hour to complete. Then close that bleeder and go to the left rear and repeat. 5-10 minutes of drip should be fine. I like 60's rock music and have it on all the time in my shop. I go 3 songs. Then close bleeder and do right front next. Then left front. No special tools, no pressure bleeder, no vacuum bleeder, no helper, no mess, no wasted brake fluid. Close all the bleeders and slowly cycle the brake pedal all the way 3-5 full strokes. Now repeat the process at each wheel for "1 song" starting at right wheel again. That's a total of another 15 minutes. Close bleeders and your done. Simple as that. In the thousands of brake jobs I have done, this is my easiest 1 man way to get 98% of them as good as they are going to get. Good luck with it.

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Old 05-17-2023, 03:09 PM
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misterp266 misterp266 is offline
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Mike, that’s exactly how I’ve always bled brakes. Never a problem. To me, pumping them up just adds air to the lines. Gravity is a wonderful thing!

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Old 05-17-2023, 03:46 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterp266 View Post
Mike, that’s exactly how I’ve always bled brakes. Never a problem. To me, pumping them up just adds air to the lines. Gravity is a wonderful thing!
Absolutely. In older cars without ABS, the passages are large enough with a little patience, it's the way to go. On newer stuff with ABS, sometimes the internal passages are so tiny in the modulators, gravity can't overcome the viscosity of the fluid and they just won't bleed without some help. Most modern scan tools have a sub-program where you can energize the pump and modulators and move the air back to the MC reservoir where it can vent. It can take 4-5 run cycles to get the air out, but the pedal will come right up. GM trucks are really bad for that.

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Old 05-17-2023, 08:56 PM
Terry M. Hunt Terry M. Hunt is offline
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Default 1965 Catalina 2 + 2 master cylinder

Got through to NAPA tech support today, who passed my issue along to an engineer at Raybestos. He could not think of a reason why this warning was in the box. He assured me that bench bleeding the master was the thing to do and cautioned me not to use too long a stroke when doing so. He suggested one inch stroke.

So I bench bled the master, installed on car and am now gravity bleeding the wheel cylinders. The warning notice seems to have turned out to be “much ado about nothing”. Or maybe it was a cya as Mike suggested.

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Old 05-17-2023, 09:10 PM
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Scarebird Scarebird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry M. Hunt View Post
Got through to NAPA tech support today, who passed my issue along to an engineer at Raybestos. He could not think of a reason why this warning was in the box. He assured me that bench bleeding the master was the thing to do and cautioned me not to use too long a stroke when doing so. He suggested one inch stroke...
Interesting.

  #11  
Old 05-18-2023, 10:16 AM
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Heybuck Heybuck is offline
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I'm wondering if that caution label is nothing more than it being placed in the carton in error at the factory? Confusing though.

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