[JLMounce]

I have no dedicated ground for my system. If the car is properly grounded to begin with, it shouldn't need it.

[455TA]

As I stated earlier, a dedicated 4 gauge ground cable from the throttle body to the battery fixed all of my issues. Kirk at FiTech told me to install it and it worked.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

I have no dedicated ground for my system. If the car is properly grounded to begin with, it shouldn't need it.

I concur, Dr. Mounce The Body / Frame should be at one with the negative battery terminal. Easy to check. put a voltmeter on the negative battery terminal and engine, crank it. ; )

http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

I concur, Dr. Mounce The Body / Frame should be at one with the negative battery terminal. Easy to check. put a voltmeter on the negative battery terminal and engine, crank it. ; )

http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

X3!

[grivera]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

I concur, Dr. Mounce The Body / Frame should be at one with the negative battery terminal. Easy to check. put a voltmeter on the negative battery terminal and engine, crank it. ; )

http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm

Let me begin by saying that troubleshooting electrical problems is my weakness.

I tried the voltage drop test on from negative battery post to the engine block. Without cranking engine, the meter reads .3 mV. With engine cranking, the numbers move too quickly to get a reading but they are on the mV scale.

I also tried a direct lead from the battery to the positive side of the coil in case my ignition switch had an issue. The starting and stalling issue persisted.

[1funride]

I suspect fuel delivery or faulty RPM signal, with more emphasis on RPM signal. The RPM/tach signal is one of the few things that can cause the system to just shut off, and flag no fault. I would first try and monitor the RPMs with the FiTech display if you arent already. That reacts fast enough to see the RPM jumps. The engine ground was a good starting point, and it seems good, but what you really care about is the ground to the FiTech body and ensuring all other ignition related grounds go to the throttle body directly as well. For troubleshooting you can run quick wires between them. I am not too familiar with the Dave Ray HEI, does this use MSD internals? I would suspect the tach signal from the HEI as well, and I am not sure how that is getting generated, is it simply a (-) coil connection? The power and ground to HEI needs to be really good and essentially the same potential as the Fitech, for sure that will affect the RPM signal. I would also remove any other devices off the RPM signal for troubleshooting such as a tach etc. So a bit wordy, but be certain your tach signal into the Fitech is good.

[grivera]

The Dave Ray HEI is a 2 wire unit, I don't believe it has any MSD internals. The tach signal is directly off the (-) side of coil. The strange thing with this is the problem surfaced out of nowhere. Prior to the issue surfacing, the battery had died. I jumped it with my truck and when it started up it was running a bit rough. It then stalled and the rest is history.

[TedRamAirII]

Better check spark. I wonder if jumping it fried the ignition module. Get some sort of test light on the coil negative and see if you get a flashing light while cranking it over. Flashing light is good, solid light is bad. No light means there is no power to the coil.

[1funride]

So it ran perfect before, then you jumped it, and now it starts but shuts off almost immediately? If this is true, your getting spark, and to some degree fuel pressure. It still acts the same when you key on? Hear fuel pump come on, hear fuel pump load down a bit when the pressure builds, see injectors prime and a puff of fuel, and fuel pump will shut off when system is pressurized. Be sure to hear the fuel pump load down and be sure you have a good amount of fuel in your tank, and you see the fuel puff. Then you start it and it stalls almost immediately? When it stalls, the fuel pump is still heard running? If you can verify good fuel pressure during this.

If the above is true, I would still suspect the tach input to the EFI, possibly a damaged HEI magnetic/hall effect sensor. Since it ran good prior, its probably safe to assume all your electrical connections were made correctly to include grounds and power sources. Also safe to assume you don't have a vacuum, or exhaust leak, and the problem is not mechanical. I assume you didn't install any fuses in the system that could have been damaged. I would try and verify the fitech rpm reading on the fitech display while cranking the engine with starter but not starting it. Disable fuel. Should see an rpm reading that remains fairly constant during the entire time engine is cranking. If anything else is on the HEI tach wire I would remove it for now.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Better check spark. I wonder if jumping it fried the ignition module. Get some sort of test light on the coil negative and see if you get a flashing light while cranking it over. Flashing light is good, solid light is bad. No light means there is no power to the coil.

The engine starts and runs but then shuts off almost immediately- would the above test be relevant?

Originally Posted by 1funride

So it ran perfect before, then you jumped it, and now it starts but shuts off almost immediately? If this is true, your getting spark, and to some degree fuel pressure. It still acts the same when you key on? Hear fuel pump come on, hear fuel pump load down a bit when the pressure builds, see injectors prime and a puff of fuel, and fuel pump will shut off when system is pressurized. Be sure to hear the fuel pump load down and be sure you have a good amount of fuel in your tank, and you see the fuel puff. Then you start it and it stalls almost immediately? When it stalls, the fuel pump is still heard running? If you can verify good fuel pressure during this.

If the above is true, I would still suspect the tach input to the EFI, possibly a damaged HEI magnetic/hall effect sensor. Since it ran good prior, its probably safe to assume all your electrical connections were made correctly to include grounds and power sources. Also safe to assume you don't have a vacuum, or exhaust leak, and the problem is not mechanical. I assume you didn't install any fuses in the system that could have been damaged. I would try and verify the fitech rpm reading on the fitech display while cranking the engine with starter but not starting it. Disable fuel. Should see an rpm reading that remains fairly constant during the entire time engine is cranking. If anything else is on the HEI tach wire I would remove it for now.

It ran fine before but the system had lots of tuning to do because I only put about 10-15 miles on it.

When I turn key to on, I hear the pump prime/pressuraize for about 5-10 seconds and stop. Then I start the engine and after a couple of seconds of run time it stalls. Previously, as in firsst time set up, I had the fuel pump hooked to a relay and the FiTech orange wire was powering the relay. I now have the orange wire directly to the fuel pump and the problem perstsis. I checked the FiTech fuses and all are good as are the under-dash fuses.

I will check the RPM deal.

[1funride]

The engine starts and runs but then shuts off almost immediately- would the above test be relevant?

Not really, unless spark stops after a few seconds, pretty unlikely.

Has your system run with the fitech driving the pump directly?
You mentioned you had the pump driven by a relay, with the fitech controlling the relay. I am not exactly sure what that will result in but I suspect it would drive the pump much faster, as the fitech unit controls the pump altering its flow for demand. Idle demand isn't a huge flow rate. It could be possible your unit tuned itself to a much higher pressure/flow at idle. Now that the fitech is controlling the pump, it may need to relearn. With only 10 miles on the system, I would reset the entire system and start over with the engine entry, and the other items such as ignition control.

I still suspect RPM jump as well.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by 1funride

The engine starts and runs but then shuts off almost immediately- would the above test be relevant?

Not really, unless spark stops after a few seconds, pretty unlikely.

Has your system run with the fitech driving the pump directly?
You mentioned you had the pump driven by a relay, with the fitech controlling the relay. I am not exactly sure what that will result in but I suspect it would drive the pump much faster, as the fitech unit controls the pump altering its flow for demand. Idle demand isn't a huge flow rate. It could be possible your unit tuned itself to a much higher pressure/flow at idle. Now that the fitech is controlling the pump, it may need to relearn. With only 10 miles on the system, I would reset the entire system and start over with the engine entry, and the other items such as ignition control.

I still suspect RPM jump as well.

I connected the pump directly after this problem surfaced at the advice of JLMounce in an earlier post IIRC. BTW, there are 4 gallons of fuel in the tank.

[TedRamAirII]

Sorry. I based my statement on your last sentence.

"it then stalled, and the rest is history"

If it starts, you at least have spark while its cranking. I would make sure it continues to spark while its dying off. Too bad there's no easy way to check fuel pressure. You would think they would make a port like most all GM cars. I wonder if the fitech is getting a "cranking" signal, but not a "run" signal? Does the RPM signal continue to read while its running bad?

[1funride]

My order of attack for what I know
1) Add some more fuel
2) Reset all learned, there is a selection that resets everything, no telling what was learned with the prior fuel pump connection.
3) Set the system back your baseline setup to include timing control
4) Start it and watch your rpm readout, put that on the large fitech display
If RPM jumps and it dies, then you found it
5) If it runs verify your IAC count, IAC count can contribute to the problem, again since your fuel pump is no wired differently

I added a video to show how bad my RPM jump was and what it did to the engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrYG5oE9q0w

[JLMounce]

When you say the engine stalls. Is it coughing a choking then stops, or does it simply shut off like you keyed off?

Put your afr volts and fuel pump on your large gauges. Watch what's happening when the car shuts off or chokes out. Is afr rich, lean? What's your system voltage? What percentage is the fuel pump being run at?

Might want to film that so you can review a couple times.

If the engine is coughing and struggling to stay running, you're likely looking at a fueling issue. If it just turning off it's probably voltage related.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by 1funride

My order of attack for what I know
1) Add some more fuel
2) Reset all learned, there is a selection that resets everything, no telling what was learned with the prior fuel pump connection.
3) Set the system back your baseline setup to include timing control
4) Start it and watch your rpm readout, put that on the large fitech display
If RPM jumps and it dies, then you found it
5) If it runs verify your IAC count, IAC count can contribute to the problem, again since your fuel pump is no wired differently

I added a video to show how bad my RPM jump was and what it did to the engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrYG5oE9q0w

I just got back home and tested a few things:

The RPM isn't registering at all. However, I put a spark tester on the #1 plug wire and I am getting spark while cranking and for the short moment that it does run. I reset the ECU and it didn't change anything. I also tried a spare coil I have and the issue persisted.

BTW, I did register 3 faults- although they didn't appear later: Fan1 Relay, (I don't have one connected), RPM noise, IAC Fault

Originally Posted by JLMounce

When you say the engine stalls. Is it coughing a choking then stops, or does it simply shut off like you keyed off?

Put your afr volts and fuel pump on your large gauges. Watch what's happening when the car shuts off or chokes out. Is afr rich, lean? What's your system voltage? What percentage is the fuel pump being run at?

Might want to film that so you can review a couple times.

If the engine is coughing and struggling to stay running, you're likely looking at a fueling issue. If it just turning off it's probably voltage related.

I tried getting the AFR and volts and fuel pump on the large screen but I couldn't remove the RPM's to do so. Here is a video of the controller while I attempt to start the engine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhMhD5MfaZ0

[JLMounce]

You have no rpm signal. That's why it's starting and shutting down. You're only supplying enough fuel to fire the engine, then it quits.

You should see rpm as you are cranking.

Your iac counts are also incredibly high, even for the temp your coolant was. I would adjust your throttle blades open a bit. I'd start with just a quarter turn to provide a bit more air on cold start.

[TedRamAirII]

Verify if the unit is getting a signal from the coil for RPM. If it is, then the unit may be bad. Electronics dont like voltage surges.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

You have no rpm signal. That's why it's starting and shutting down. You're only supplying enough fuel to fire the engine, then it quits.

You should see rpm as you are cranking.

Your iac counts are also incredibly high, even for the temp your coolant was. I would adjust your throttle blades open a bit. I'd start with just a quarter turn to provide a bit more air on cold start.

Could a module in the distributor be bad from the jump when battery died?

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

Verify if the unit is getting a signal from the coil for RPM. If it is, then the unit may be bad. Electronics dont like voltage surges.

How can I check this?

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by grivera

Could a module in the distributor be bad from the jump when battery died?





How can I check this?

Yes, that's possible. How do you have your tach hooked up? Does the tach show cranking rpm?