[mzbk2l]

I remember all the crap GM got for using a "Jap Engine" when they released the Duramax in 2001. I wonder if Ford will face the same backlash on their new Powerstroke?


Ford unveils new diesel for big trucks

After years of battles over its Navistar-provided diesel engines, Ford Motor Co. on Tuesday showed off a new diesel engine -- code name: Scorpion -- that it has been quietly developing for the past two years for its popular Super Duty pickup trucks.

Ford revealed the new 6.7-liter Power Stroke V8 engine, which weighs about 160 pounds less than the outgoing model, to journalists and analysts at a technical center in Dearborn.

The automaker said the new engine is just as durable as the outgoing model but quieter.

By developing its own engine, Ford officially ends its relationship with the Illinois-based Navistar International Corp. for its Super Duty diesel engines that dates to 1979.

But analysts said that Ford's decision to develop and build its own diesel engine for the Super Duty line of pickups will give the company greater control over the heart of its heavy-duty pickups and it will better position the company to respond to market demand.

"They have had ongoing issues with Navistar for years now," said Mike Omotoso, an automotive analyst for J.D. Power and Associates. "I know that the Scorpion will be made in Mexico, so just the labor costs alone will be significantly cheaper."

[Half-Inch Stud]

Awe HECHO en Mexico

[2002Z4CSS]

At least the profits come back to Dearborn, Mi.

[cfmcnc]

Yeah, what he said! Dodge trucks have been made in Mexico for years , but it's still an American car Company (Registered). But it is kind of a bummer still. Maybe...on the bright side , Their contracts with International gone , they will be able to pass the savings along to the customer on the new Super Duty to where average people can afford them(Ha Ha Ha) yeah , right.

[Cobrabill]

Mike- we pull several trains a day up from Fords plant in Hermasillo,Mexico.Old news.

Difference being,GM is in-capable of building a competitive diesel engine and contracted with Isuzu.The Ford vehicles are meerly being assembled south of the border.

[pierced mikey]

Originally Posted by 2002Z4CSS

At least the profits come back to Dearborn, Mi.

Stupid question about this comment(since it has been made on the other end about Toyota's etc that are built here). Is it really better for just the profits to come back here to support the higher-ups at a company, or is it better for the profits that are made to be supporting U.S. citizens that are working the assembly line building the truck? To me I think it would be better to have plants full of people that are able to support their family than CEO's, CFO's etc getting more money and bonus's for "cost savings". Same with building a Toyota here, yes the profits may go back to Japan, but if you have an assembly plant full of people(workers, managers etc) that are all making money, that's a plus for the people that aren't unemployed(?)

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by mzbk2l

I remember all the crap GM got for using a "Jap Engine" when they released the Duramax in 2001. I wonder if Ford will face the same backlash on their new Powerstroke?


Ford unveils new diesel for big trucks

Mike, plenty of Fords have used Mazda engines for years. To my understanding the Duramaxx was a joint venture with GM & Isuzu.

[Cobrabill]

Brad-the Duramax was an ISUZU engine.Nothing GM in it.

I forgot to mention that the existance of Ford factories outside in Mexico can be squarely blamed on the UAW.

And lets not forget that "gem" that GM came up with:Adapt a Oldsmobile 350 block as a diesel.That thing rivaled the 301 for "Piece of sh!t of the decade" award.Well,.........maybe not.

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Mike- we pull several trains a day up from Fords plant in Hermasillo,Mexico.Old news.

Difference being,GM is in-capable of building a competitive diesel engine and contracted with Isuzu.The Ford vehicles are meerly being assembled south of the border.

Seems like currently none of the big three use their own diesels in the 3/4 and one ton trucks do they???????

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Brad-the Duramax was an ISUZU engine.Nothing GM in it.

WAS being the key word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duramax_V8_engine

http://www.gm.com/experience/technol...max_engine.jsp

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by bigunde

Seems like currently none of the big three use their own diesels in the 3/4 and one ton trucks do they???????

in 2006, GM sold its entire stake in Isuzu ending the relationship. GM now has no connections with Isuzu.

[bigunde]

Good info. Thanks Mr GTO.

[Bjorn]

Some things can be good even if "hecho en Mexico".....my oldesrt daughter is! Puerta Vallarta.... LOL

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Brad-the Duramax was an ISUZU engine.Nothing GM in it.

I forgot to mention that the existance of Ford factories outside in Mexico can be squarely blamed on the UAW.

And lets not forget that "gem" that GM came up with:Adapt a Oldsmobile 350 block as a diesel.That thing rivaled the 301 for "Piece of sh!t of the decade" award.Well,.........maybe not.

Bill, this is not the first time GM went with Isuzu diesels : Chevy Chevette, LUV & S10 (yup they made a few)
Isuzu has a long history of making diesels, and despite my dislike of the aluminum heads the Duramaxx seems to be one hellova good engine.
Unfortunately Ford is going with aluminum heads also -

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

Bill, this is not the first time GM went with Isuzu diesels : Chevy Chevette, LUV & S10 (yup they made a few)
Isuzu has a long history of making diesels, and despite my dislike of the aluminum heads the Duramaxx seems to be one hellova good engine.
Unfortunately Ford is going with aluminum heads also -

Agreed.But they were all completely Isuzu engines.Which is why Cummins is the" be all and end all" in Diesels.

[David Holmberg]

I'll take my GMC with a Duramax/Allison over a Dodge with a Cummins any day.

The Duramax has progressed very well over the past couple of years and has kicked the Powerstrokes butt, and is hurting the cummins now. (They went to the 6.7 from the 5.9 to compete)

So I have a vastly improved ride and comfort over the dodge, a superior transmission and an engine that can make as much power...

The Duramax, in stock form can make well over 500 hp, the Dodge and Fords need a new turbo to hit 500...

There is a very nice write up about the new 6.7 Ford Diesel in this issue of Diesel world. Appears to be a very nice engine.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Agreed.But they were all completely Isuzu engines.Which is why Cummins is the" be all and end all" in Diesels.

BS: A Detroit 71 series will take more abuse then any engine. You'll have to drop the pan and remove a head on a N14 before the million mile mark unlike a Detroit.
I'll take mine in a 12V configuration : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od_6H-k9fBg

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

I'll take my GMC with a Duramax/Allison over a Dodge with a Cummins any day.

The Duramax has progressed very well over the past couple of years and has kicked the Powerstrokes butt, and is hurting the cummins now. (They went to the 6.7 from the 5.9 to compete)

So I have a vastly improved ride and comfort over the dodge, a superior transmission and an engine that can make as much power...

The Duramax, in stock form can make well over 500 hp, the Dodge and Fords need a new turbo to hit 500...

There is a very nice write up about the new 6.7 Ford Diesel in this issue of Diesel world. Appears to be a very nice engine.

Ive driven a stock Duramax; I was impressed.

[nonnova]

Originally Posted by 2002Z4CSS

At least the profits come back to Dearborn, Mi.

Ask an auto worker that received a layoff his opinion about that. Since you're in Michigan I'm sure it would be easy to find one.

Originally Posted by cfmcnc

Yeah, what he said! Dodge trucks have been made in Mexico for years , but it's still an American car Company (Registered).

Where does Ford (an American company) spend it's profit? Mexico...making the new powerstroke engine. Where does Toyota spend it's profit? Right here building a plant in America employing my fellow American workers.

Originally Posted by pierced mikey

Stupid question about this comment(since it has been made on the other end about Toyota's etc that are built here). Is it really better for just the profits to come back here to support the higher-ups at a company, or is it better for the profits that are made to be supporting U.S. citizens that are working the assembly line building the truck?.

Right on!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm more concerned about my fellow American worker then where the "profit" from a car goes. An American worker spends his paycheck here helping our economy, A Mexican worker does not.

[bigunde]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

I'll take my GMC with a Duramax/Allison over a Dodge with a Cummins any day.

The Duramax has progressed very well over the past couple of years and has kicked the Powerstrokes butt, and is hurting the cummins now. (They went to the 6.7 from the 5.9 to compete)

So I have a vastly improved ride and comfort over the dodge, a superior transmission and an engine that can make as much power...

The Duramax, in stock form can make well over 500 hp, the Dodge and Fords need a new turbo to hit 500...

There is a very nice write up about the new 6.7 Ford Diesel in this issue of Diesel world. Appears to be a very nice engine.

Agreed David.!!!!

[Tom Vaught]

[QUOTE=nonnova;3763100]Ask an auto worker that received a layoff his opinion about that. Since you're in Michigan I'm sure it would be easy to find one.

***********************
Auto Worker can also be a Salaried Worker, Not just a Plant Worker.
***********************

Originally Posted by nonnova

Where does Ford (an American company) spend it's profit? Mexico...making the new powerstroke engine. Where does Toyota spend it's profit? Right here building a plant in America employing my fellow American workers.
Right on!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm more concerned about my fellow American worker then where the "profit" from a car goes. An American worker spends his paycheck here helping our economy, A Mexican worker does not.

I very seriously doubt that Toyota spends it profits ONLY in the USA and Not Japan. Seriously Doubt that comment.

The Plant in Mexico is a very small part of the overall Ford Work Force.
Quote:

"Ford’s Dearborn Truck Plant will resume maximum operation of three shifts in late September. While there are currently three separate crews at the plant, they work on a rotating basis. Each crew works for four weeks and is then on “layoff” for two weeks, said Ford spokeswoman Marcey Evans.

The move will enable all 2,800 employees at Dearborn Truck to work on a full-time basis, removing 900 people from Michigan’s weekly unemployment rolls. Ford supplements those unemployment payments so workers receive their full wage."

UNION WORKERS RECEIVE THEIR FULL WAGE EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE "ON UNEMPLOYMENT"

""You're guaranteed a certain amount of work" under the union's contract with Ford, said Brian Meekins, a trustee at UAW Local 919 at Norfolk Assembly. When Ford idles a plant, "unemployment kicks in and pays us their maximum amount, and then SUB pay kicks in."


How come you conveniently forgot to include that little fact Nonnova???

If I am standing in the unemployment line, I AM NOT collecting a full paycheck by a long shot as a salaried worker.

One last comment about the Japanese:

The Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association (JAMA), an association of 14 Japanese automakers doing business in America, notes that they collectively employ 3,600 R&D workers at 36 facilities nationwide. But fail to tell the whole story - Thanks largely to Ford, GM and Chrysler, more than 65,000 Americans work in auto R&D in Michigan alone.

3600 R&D workers vs 65,000 R&D (Engineering) American Workers in Michigan alone.

Tom Vaught