[Midniteauto]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I can only imagine the frustration that someone might have at thinking they are buttoning up on a project, and to have details pointed out.

It is frustrating, but it is part of the business. I am glad to have you folks on this forum pointing these things out, it is by FAR the most informative, helpful forum Ive ever been on when it comes to restorations.
We specialize in 66-72 classics, (mainly GM) but 90% of our builds and work involve resto mods, custom work, modern upgrades, etc... we are certainly not model or brand specific experts. Our customer is aware of this and simply requested we make it 'as correct as you can make it.'
We actually have tried to locate a local judge through the club to inspect the car, but this was not possible. His/our plans are to have the car judged once it is complete to our satisfaction, and we are both fully aware that there will be corrections needed. At that point we will sit down and determine just how far he wants to go with those corrections, what hes responsible for, and what we are responsible for. Customer satisfaction is first and foremost at my shop, even if it means working weekends on my own time to make things right.
With that being said, point and advise as much as you see. It may piss me off, but I do appreciate it, and so will my customer!

[unruhjonny]

/\ thank you for chiming in on this point for us

[Bentwheelbob]

Originally Posted by Midniteauto

It is frustrating, but it is part of the business. I am glad to have you folks on this forum pointing these things out, it is by FAR the most informative, helpful forum Ive ever been on when it comes to restorations.
We specialize in 66-72 classics, (mainly GM) but 90% of our builds and work involve resto mods, custom work, modern upgrades, etc... we are certainly not model or brand specific experts. Our customer is aware of this and simply requested we make it 'as correct as you can make it.'
We actually have tried to locate a local judge through the club to inspect the car, but this was not possible. His/our plans are to have the car judged once it is complete to our satisfaction, and we are both fully aware that there will be corrections needed. At that point we will sit down and determine just how far he wants to go with those corrections, what hes responsible for, and what we are responsible for. Customer satisfaction is first and foremost at my shop, even if it means working weekends on my own time to make things right.
With that being said, point and advise as much as you see. It may piss me off, but I do appreciate it, and so will my customer!

The master cylinder should be Black, the exhaust preheater hose should be the black paper version, and the alternator fan should be silver cad. Other than the few issues pointed out the car looks great.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Midniteauto

It is frustrating, but it is part of the business. I am glad to have you folks on this forum pointing these things out, it is by FAR the most informative, helpful forum Ive ever been on when it comes to restorations.
We specialize in 66-72 classics, (mainly GM) but 90% of our builds and work involve resto mods, custom work, modern upgrades, etc... we are certainly not model or brand specific experts. Our customer is aware of this and simply requested we make it 'as correct as you can make it.'
We actually have tried to locate a local judge through the club to inspect the car, but this was not possible. His/our plans are to have the car judged once it is complete to our satisfaction, and we are both fully aware that there will be corrections needed. At that point we will sit down and determine just how far he wants to go with those corrections, what hes responsible for, and what we are responsible for. Customer satisfaction is first and foremost at my shop, even if it means working weekends on my own time to make things right.
With that being said, point and advise as much as you see. It may piss me off, but I do appreciate it, and so will my customer!

Just tossing this out there, if you or the customer wants the fenders correct.
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=824557

[Midniteauto]

Thanks for the help on all this. We acquired a steel valance, and it is fitted and painted.
Which brings me to my next question: turn signals/housings. The housings we had in the plastic valance on the 71 have studs on the back to secure them, with short screws to retain the lens and cover. We have a 70 in the shop being finished up, it is correct but nowhere near to the extent of this 71. The signal housings are not studded, but are retained with long screws which thread into plastic inserts in the valance and hold the lens, housing, and 'fillers' into place. What needs to be on the 71?

[Midniteauto]

Also- the outer window reveal moldings on this 70 have holes along the outer edge, I am assuming this is for the chrome strips, perhaps deluxe? I can not locate the correct outer moldings that will accept this chrome along its edge. Two orders now and the outer moldings come with chrome attached?? Shouldnt I be looking for rubber strips onl;y, that the chrome would slip over?

[Formulabruce]

Stud on back of metal housing is a 1969 parking light housing. Can cut it off and just use the tabs on the sides as screw goes through them to the clip on the valence.
Reveal moldings had Studs near the door top. Trans Am did Not have that molding as I recall.
They can be installed with a stud gun, but they will warp the door and require filler .

[455hota]

From my memory, if your Firebird was optioned with the Belt Reveal Molding option, your outer window weatherstrip had no chrome bead, it was plain. The door had studs mounted on the top edge and a belt reveal trim piece ran along the top side of the door, this trim piece met up with the rear hood edge trim and the wee little fender tip pieces of reveal trim.
If you did NOT have the above mentioned option, your outer window weatherstrip had the small chrome bead to provide a little Bling, and of course no studs cuz there was no door top edge trim.
Trans Ams could have had these options, as my last 71 had not only this belt reveal trim option, but also the over the side window drip rail trim option.


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[Midniteauto]

Sounds like I may have a mess here. I attached a photo of the LH door showing the existing holes, as well as a photo of the reveal moldings I have ordered. The chrome strip on the far left is the one that appears to attach via these holes.
The third pic is the original, correct RAIII engine in the same car, with the correct carb, which I understand is a big dollar piece. The engine came to us as it was pulled probably 30 years ago, complete air cleaner to pan, with a rod in/through the pan, cracked pan rail in 2 places , 3/4" hole in the bottom of the water jacket where the counterweight wedged a chunk in there, and bottom of 2 cylinders bashed up pretty good. With the understanding that there is absolutely NO warranty on an attempt to save it, I had the block TIG welded up, short filled the jackets with about 1" of hard blok, machine work done, sent the carb out for an overhaul, and here she is, leak free and runs perfect.
An unrelated story I thought you all might appreciate.

[Aus78Formula]

Yes, your outer door weatherseals should be plain rubber to suit the decor trim shown, inner seals still have small beading. The door decor strips wrap around the rear of the hood and fender corners too, last I checked only the doors were available new/repro.

[Midniteauto]

Issues you guys have brought to my attention have been noted and corrected, and shes going back together now. Just resprayed the dash carrier in hot rod black, with a 'p*ss coat' and gun pressure reduced on the last coat to give a bit of texture. Looks good to me, how do you feel about this procedure?

[71HOT/A]

It should have a dual snorkel air cleaner. The fan shroud is a newer replacement w/ the square hole. Another way to spot replacement fenders, even on later models, are the speed nuts for hood hinge bolts.

[Midniteauto]

Had a great visit with 71HOT/A last week- little did I know he lives a half hour away- he called and offered to ride down and take a look over the car. HUGE THANKS- you don't know how much this helps(ed) us!
All in all it was a great visit and an 'as expected' punch list, we do have some work to do haha- some 'oversights' we were aware of previous to our visit, like incorrect rearend housing, fenders, fan shroud, etc... but had no idea the rear interior panels were incorrect, lower door panels are camaro, and that 1971 15" wheels actually had 14" 'hubs'. Luckily many of these items were installed by the previous 'restoration' shop, however it is no excuse- we did not research some of the 'new' or 'replacement' parts installed by the previous shop well enough.
With that being said, we maintain an excellent relationship with this customer and he wants to find ALL the parts needed to make it correct, if at all possible. The difficult ones include:
Correct wheels
Correct rearend- housing or complete (drum)
Correct door cups/ map pockets, whatever you call them
This is a January 71 Norwood car, auto, AC, standard interior, FWIW.
Any help would be appreciated greatly!

[Midniteauto]

Also- Im seeing 2 or 3 different lower door panel designs, and all I can compare them to is the 70 deluxe interior we are wrapping up. If someone could post a shot of what a completed, correct 71 standard panel looks like, thatd be a help too!

[eaglesan13]

Here are some pictures the door panels on my 1971 Trans Am. This car was built in the Norwood plant during the second week of February of 1971. White car with blue standard interior. This is a low mileage car with original door panels.

Originally Posted by Midniteauto

Also- Im seeing 2 or 3 different lower door panel designs, and all I can compare them to is the 70 deluxe interior we are wrapping up. If someone could post a shot of what a completed, correct 71 standard panel looks like, thatd be a help too!

[GREGGDOG]

I'd say if the end customer wants things all correct having the correct inner fender rails is a huge plus or minus - very obvious. I know shops who have cut in inner sections without having to repaint entire fender.

That said, I'll plug FormulaBruce's 70-72' only inner fender rails he has for sale!

FWIW, some 71' Firebirds shared Camaro's hard plastic lower door panels. I had an original 71 HO formula with this 70-71' Camaro hard plastic style.

[unruhjonny]

I think the Camaro door panels being installed on a 70/71 Firebird was a supply issue;
I have seen it first hand on an unmolested '70 base model that I helped take apart;
the door panels even had "22387" stamped on them (my door panels had no such stamp);
Yet they had the Camaro armrest on them.
I removed (and I believe sold) the Camaro armrests;
Right now have those door panels in my car with my original armrests installed on them (read: drivers side needs repairs) - albeit with replacement vinyl on the bottoms, and being dyed from tan to black.

The unfortunate thing is that many repop suppliers incorrectly list the Camaro armrests as being correct for 1970 & 1971 Firebirds.

The correct armrests are available HERE, but I am unaware of anyone offering reproduction door inserts.
I do see used door panels with the inserts often on dismantler type listings (eg: here in the classifieds or on facebook groups)

[eaglesan13]

These are the original door panels in my 71 trans am.

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I have seen it first hand on an unmolested '70 base model that I helped take apart; the door panels even had "22387" stamped on them (my door panels had no such stamp);

[unruhjonny]

yup, much like that.

I think mine actually said "22387" and no more though.

I would not argue with someone with an original car which had the Camaro armrests installed at the factory, but I personally would never advocate that someone buy the Camaro armrests to install in a Firebird.