[Carl A]

This is my front carb , I have no Idea where I disconnected the line years ago and I mean years ago.

[Carl A]

Here is the line.
dld posted this engine bay pic (can a 65 be too nice thread) but it was not his car.

[John V.]

60ssstuff, did you delete your last post? You asked about the "big hump" in the line.

Don't know for sure, but I suspect that bend was just to give rigidity to the line.

You mentioned some pix from a '64, I'd love to see them.

I've noted the difference between '64 & '65 before. First off, in '64, only the GTO required the Auto Trans Vac Modulator Pipe, the big car trannies didn't have a Vac Modulator in '64.

Also, at least for a time in '64, the Auto Trans GTO Brass Block had a continuous pipe that ran all the way to the Front Carb fitting. The Trans Vac Pipe and the Power Brake Vac Pipe (or Plug if no PB) connected to the Brass Block. See attached pic.

Refer to Carl's pic of his Front Carb fitting and you will see the short pipe at the Front Carb fitting end that was used in '65. In that case, this short piece of pipe was connected by rubber hose to the Brass Block which had a much shorter piece of pipe sticking out of it than in '64.

The '65 Brass Block (called the Carb Vacuum Extension Pipe Assembly, Item 13, in the illustration I posted) may have been used during '64 as a running change.

If it was, my thought is that the addition of the Vac Hose allowed for some flexibility during assembly that made it easier to connect the Modulator and PB Vac Pipes to the Brass Block, whereas the original '64 solid pipe Extension was too rigid.

Basically, picture the '64 Extension as having a chunk of the pipe cut out in the middle and replaced by rubber hose and you have the '65 arrangement.

I have never found good evidence on an original '64 to know for sure whether the '65 arrangement was ever used in '64 during production, but it seems that only the '65 Extension Pipe Assembly was offered for Service Replacement, for use on both the '64 & '65.

Carl, do you still have the '65 Extension Pipe Assembly?

Do you still have the original Power Brake Vac Pipe?

If you do and could post pix of same, that would be awesome to see. I am convinced the PB Vac Pipe is unique for the Auto Trans setup, a slightly different PB Vac Pipe would have been installed for a Man Trans setup since I do not think the Extension Pipe Assembly was used except with Auto Trans.

That is why it is so hard to find the '64 "long pipe style" Extension Pipe Assembly, there just wasn't a lot of usage since it was a Auto Trans Tripower GTO only part. The '65 "short pipe style" Extension Pipe Assembly is only a bit more common because they would have been found on big car Tripowers too and I suspect Tripower with Auto Trans was a more common combination in a big car than in the GTO.

[60sstuff]

Originally Posted by Carl A

I'll send $20 to the first person who posts pictures of their stock original early 65, Tri power, P/Brakes auto trans GTO--- how does the modulator vacuum line hook up. This is what I have so where does the line go?

Carl - I was sent these pics recently from a gentleman that owns a 65 Tri-Power / Automatic (YR Code) GTO. As with most YR's this one has been changed to mechanical linkage therefore the large red cap over the brass fitting on back of front carb. This capped side of that fitting went to the vacuum reserve tank located in RH inner fender, but has no use on the mechanical version. As seen in these pics the automatic transmission modulator steel line threads into the big brass block fitting coming off the LH side of the rear carb and wraps around front of carbs and down RH side of intake to transmission. I think both 64 and 65 had this same automatic modulator line. This particular 65 does not have power brakes therefore the big brass block has been factory plugged. If power brakes were used the steel line from the PB booster would thread into this plugged hole. 66 YR's used a different steel line for the transmission.
Carl - Your #21 post and pic shows the correct brass fitting on back of front carb.

[60sstuff]

Power Brakes - If your Original Tri-Power/Automatic has all of the above AND power brakes then 65 and 66 used a unique (not reproduced) steel line that threaded into the bottom of the big brass block and four bends later attaches back to the rubber hose that connects to the PB booster check valve. I don't know how a 64 was set up with PB.
Pic of 65 below is from a popular GTO book, and 66 is mine.

[t walgamuth]

I just bought the turquoise and white 65 Bonneville four door with factory tripower and 8 lug wheels. It is in very good original condition with only 29800 miles showing, believed to be correct.

I was checking the carbs out last night and found that the front and rear have accelerator pump function but the center does not seem to be working. Also noticed that the secondaries seem to be opened by a vac device.

Looking for advice....I am comfortable taking off the top of the carb and cleaning it and rebuilding the pump....unless there is some good reason not to dig into it.

Also what about that vac actuator for the two extra carbs. Is that a good thing to keep or is it advisable to convert to manual linkages?

Also starter has gone on strike. with a good charge it will not even click when I turn the key to start, though the lights and horn work fine. Any likely hood that the ignition switch has checked out?

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

All the '64's used the tee in the front carb, as they all had vacuum linkage (some claim there were some mechanical linkage '64's, but I've never seen one).

I had to smile when I read this comment, Dick, as there was at least one mechanical linkage 64 Tri-Power that came out of Pontiac Motors and was sold to a customer.

That being said, I want to thank you, today, March 28, 2016 for all of your efforts in helping the forum members identify carb pieces, linkage pieces, and vacuum routings.

Your "Curved Linkage" 64 Mechanical Linkage (service replacement) is truly a outstanding effort to help the 64 GTO / 421 Guys go to a Mechanical Linkage on their vehicles and be correct for a show.

Tom Vaught

[t walgamuth]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I had to smile when I read this comment, Dick, as there was at least one mechanical linkage 64 Tri-Power that came out of Pontiac Motors and was sold to a customer.

That being said, I want to thank you, today, March 28, 2016 for all of your efforts in helping the forum members identify carb pieces, linkage pieces, and vacuum routings.

Your "Curved Linkage" 64 Mechanical Linkage (service replacement) is truly a outstanding effort to help the 64 GTO / 421 Guys go to a Mechanical Linkage on their vehicles and be correct for a show.

Tom Vaught

So is the vac operated secondaries reliable and serviceable if brought up to snuff or should I convert it ti manual secondaries? (mechanical)

Tom Walgamuth

[Dick Boneske]

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I just bought the turquoise and white 65 Bonneville four door with factory tripower and 8 lug wheels. It is in very good original condition with only 29800 miles showing, believed to be correct.

I was checking the carbs out last night and found that the front and rear have accelerator pump function but the center does not seem to be working. Also noticed that the secondaries seem to be opened by a vac device.

Looking for advice....I am comfortable taking off the top of the carb and cleaning it and rebuilding the pump....unless there is some good reason not to dig into it.

Also what about that vac actuator for the two extra carbs. Is that a good thing to keep or is it advisable to convert to manual linkages?

Also starter has gone on strike. with a good charge it will not even click when I turn the key to start, though the lights and horn work fine. Any likely hood that the ignition switch has checked out?

It's most likely that the starter is the problem, not the switch. If you have a good auto electric repair guy around, I'd take the starter off and have him rebuild the starter. Your car is noted for hard starts when the engine is hot. Be sure to buy a very high CCA battery, also.

As for the vacuum linkage on the Tripower---If you intend to keep the car completely stock, stay with the vacuum setup. To make it more drivable, however, I'd change it over to mechanical linkage. The factory-style linkage works fine with your TH400, except for limited clearance for the kickdown switch.

I've attached a picture of a '65 setup restored with mechanical linkage.

[pfilean]

Does the 65 still have the starter wire connection on the horn relay on the driver splash shield? Usually a purple wire. If so then use a remote starter button and jump from the battery side of the horn relay to the purple wires. Hit the remote button. If you get some starter action then the switch is the problem. If not then you get to go through the pain of getting the starter out without dropping it on your head. Check first - its a lot easier.

[t walgamuth]

I've come to the conclusion that the culpret is the connection between the cables and the battery. I'm gonna put on new cables.

As for the mechanical linkage Any estimate on the budget for such a conversion?

I noticed today that the linkage for the accelerator pump is broken off on the center carb today so I'll need at least that part to make it work. It looks like the shaft is staked on so I'm not sure how it will come off.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I've come to the conclusion that the culpret is the connection between the cables and the battery. I'm gonna put on new cables.

As for the mechanical linkage Any estimate on the budget for such a conversion?

I noticed today that the linkage for the accelerator pump is broken off on the center carb today so I'll need at least that part to make it work. It looks like the shaft is staked on so I'm not sure how it will come off.

Can you post a picture of the broken part as I might be able to match up a replacement for you.

Tom V.

[t walgamuth]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Can you post a picture of the broken part as I might be able to match up a replacement for you.

Tom V.

Tomorrow.

[chrisp]

Originally Posted by Terry M. Hunt

Can anybody provide the dimensions for the '65 tee? I understand from the discussion thus far that it is shorter than the '64. I'm guessing I will need dimensions in order to insure I get the correct piece should I locate a tee for sale. If seller is not familiar with these subtle differences, I can see how I could easily wind up with the wrong piece.

I have 1 i can part with 2 3/16" long x 1 1/8" wide brass with weatherhead marks , same as 60's pictured .

[t walgamuth]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

It's most likely that the starter is the problem, not the switch. If you have a good auto electric repair guy around, I'd take the starter off and have him rebuild the starter. Your car is noted for hard starts when the engine is hot. Be sure to buy a very high CCA battery, also.

As for the vacuum linkage on the Tripower---If you intend to keep the car completely stock, stay with the vacuum setup. To make it more drivable, however, I'd change it over to mechanical linkage. The factory-style linkage works fine with your TH400, except for limited clearance for the kickdown switch.

I've attached a picture of a '65 setup restored with mechanical linkage.

That tri-power looks very nice! Looks like the center carb is bigger than on mine.

We found you were right. The starter had laid down on us. So the Bonnie is starting and running very nicely now.

It still hesitates on take off and the idle seems a little too fast. I suspect the throttle plate is being kept from shutting all the way.

I might consider sending the carbs off to an expert to fettle them and install a mechanical linkage. Any idea what that might cost?

[t walgamuth]

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

That tri-power looks very nice! Looks like the center carb is bigger than on mine.

We found you were right. The starter had laid down on us. So the Bonnie is starting and running very nicely now.

It still hesitates on take off and the idle seems a little too fast. I suspect the throttle plate is being kept from shutting all the way.

I might consider sending the carbs off to an expert to fettle them and install a mechanical linkage. Any idea what that might cost?

I see no takers on an estimate for the mechanical linkage work. Nobody?

[Tom Vaught]

Mechanical Linkage install is fairly straight forward to install by an enthusiast.
Dick B does it for a part time living I believe and he can install the rear shaft that has provisions for a screw to hold on the Mechanical carb lever on a Non Show car deal and may have a orifinal Tri-Power rear shaft to go in a SHOW CAR level resto deal.

Tom V.

lafayette indiana is basically between the two of us, Dick is west of lake Michigan, I am east of lake Michigan in the Detroit area.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

All the '64's used the tee in the front carb, as they all had vacuum linkage (some claim there were some mechanical linkage '64's, but I've never seen one).

I have only seen two cars that I would say have a chance to be a Mechanical Linkage set-up. "From the factory production line", NO, NO, NO.
From the Pontiac Zone Office: Mine and possibly Terry Hunt's set-up but I do not know know if it was actually delivered to a Dealer, like my was (A 'Brass Hat' Vehicle).

Also mine was built with Documented serial # Parts (supplied by the Rochester carb people) directly to the Brass Hat vehicle.

So I totally agree with Dick on this one. NO production line 64 GTOs (with Mechanical Linkage) EVER went down that line.

Tom V.

[t walgamuth]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Mechanical Linkage install is fairly straight forward to install by an enthusiast.
Dick B does it for a part time living I believe and he can install the rear shaft that has provisions for a screw to hold on the Mechanical carb lever on a Non Show car deal and may have a orifinal Tri-Power rear shaft to go in a SHOW CAR level resto deal.

Tom V.

lafayette indiana is basically between the two of us, Dick is west of lake Michigan, I am east of lake Michigan in the Detroit area.

Thanks Tom! I looked again at the tripower website and it looks like the parts to do the conversion are not expensive at all. Also looks like I could do it. The only trouble is reaching the carbs over the vast fender with my short legs and round belly.

Thanks again!

Tom W.

[carbking]

When I first started restoring tripowers, Steve and Chris had not yet started reproducing this stuff, and I had several of these different fittings reproduced (without the Weatherhead markings). Many I made myself (not really that difficult).

Since I no longer have time to restore carbs, probably should take the time to dig out all this stuff and throw it on ebay.

The female inverted flare fittings were challenging, until I found a retired tool and die maker who made me some special taps.

Again, anyone with a hobby lathe and hobby milling machine can make this stuff. To quote an old cliche " it ain't rocket science".

Lots easier today than it once was, thanks to the efforts of guys like Steve and Chris.

Jon.