[tdods61]

I'm new on this board but have been in to the Pontiac hobby for many years. Came across a set of 8 lugs from a 64 Grand Prix that I'm interested in purchasing and putting on my 65 2+2 HO. I know the 8 lugs for the rear for 64 are the same up to 68. I know they changed the front drums to a wider drum when the cars got bigger from 65 to 68 when they stopped putting the 8 lugs on cars. The 65 to 68's front drums are 1/2 inch wider due to a bigger brake shoe on these cars. My question is will the front 64 8 lugs fit on the front of the 65 if I just change the shoe size to that of a 64? I don't know if the spindles are longer on the 65 and will protrude too far out of the drum if I go to 64 shoes. I don't really want to spend money on the 64 8 lugs and find out the fronts won't work. tTanks for any help in this. Tom

[Goatracer1]

Why would you want to put smaller brakes on your car? Sell or trade what you have for what you need.

[Engine-Ear]

Welcome to the PY board!

Feel free to post a new member intro (with pics of your car if possible) in the Lobby when you get a chance.

In addition to different show width, spindle length may differ the wheel bearings may differ. So...I concur with goatracer1. Find new owners for your pre 65 stuff and buy what you can bolt on and use...

Good luck!

[tdods61]

I actually haven't bought the wheels yet. I bought my 65 2+2 421 HO 4spd tri-power last year. It came with hubcaps and I currently have poverty dog dish hub caps on it. Its all original including plug wires with original motor and tri-power that hasn't been molested and it had a repaint many years ago that is faded. It's not a show car and I'm just going to leave it like it is and just drive it on the weekends. I'm currently replacing all the brake hardware and thought the 8 lugs would be a nice upgrade. I know the 8 lugs for the rear are the same from 64 to 68 and have the same part number but fronts are not. I did not buy the 64s yet but the price is right . An elderly gentlemen has them and took them off his 64 in the early 70s and has 6 complete with trim rings and center caps. I guess the biggest issue would be finding someone willing to trade the fronts.

[stevep]

Add the 8 lugs! I'm sure that you will be able to find a set of good front drums or someone may want to trade for what you have. Just make sure that there in no oxidation between the liners and the drum and that the chamfer in the liner is still present. That means that the liner is still thick enough.
If the price is right, buy them....if they are good

[marxjunk]

my understanding..and i researched it..63-68 interchange..61 and 62 are the different ones...and its appearance

[tdods61]

Thanks for the input. I'm going to look at them on Saturday. One subtle difference there is between the appearance of the 64s versus the 65 to 68's is that the center caps on the 64s are polished aluminum but the 65 to 68s are a brushed finish. Only a Pontiac purist will pick up on that. If I do buy them I'll have to keep 4 matching center caps and hope I can get the right wheels for the front. If that doesn't work out I could always resell them and maybe make a $ on them.

[Stuart]

The best 8 lug reference available online is an article Roger Riehl wrote for the Smoke Signals many years ago, Fred Teufert has a copy of the article available on his website: http://www.teufert.net/pontiac/8lug/8lug.htm (there are several pages, scroll to the bottom of the screen to find the 'next page' button.)

He mentions being able to use the later drums on the earlier cars with some modifications, but I suspect as others have said using the earlier drums on a later car is not going to be worth the effort.

One other thing: the 1963 and 1964 center caps are the same except 1963 caps were al polished while 1964 had a brushed finish; 1965-1968 caps were a totally different shape and are also polished (although they are probably the easiest to find - as mentioned, only purists will say anything about using the wrong year caps.)

[stevep]

Originally Posted by marxjunk

my understanding..and i researched it..63-68 interchange..61 and 62 are the different ones...and its appearance

63-68 rear will interchange. 65-68 front will interchange.

[Heybuck]

Originally Posted by stevep

Add the 8 lugs! I'm sure that you will be able to find a set of good front drums or someone may want to trade for what you have. Just make sure that there in no oxidation between the liners and the drum and that the chamfer in the liner is still present. That means that the liner is still thick enough.
If the price is right, buy them....if they are good

LISTEN to what stevp says. If you have any oxidation (rust / corrosion) between the liner and the alloy drum, you will regret the purchase. Corrosion causes hot spots which in turn lead to brake shudder. And sometimes its violent shudder.

In essence, how these brakes work is the steel liner transfers accumulated heat into the alloy of the 8lug. But if you have corrosion, the rust forms almost an insulation so heat cannot evenly pass into the alloy. So the drum goes slightly out of shape leading to brake shudder.

Just looking at the drums, its very difficult to see any sign of corrosion. The only true way to test them is to run them on a car and get them up to operating temperature. When the the drums are cold, you have no problems as there is no heat build up so no shudder. 3 or 4 applications will start to show signs of problems. But maybe if when you are looking at them and you see darker patches on the liner, its a sure sign you have potential problems.

Ask me how I know all this........

I think you can still buy NEW drums and you can have your old drums re-lined. Expensive but worth the trouble. They are great brakes when they work properly. And GREAT looking too.

Ian

[Goatracer1]

I have used 1965 Front 8 lug drums on my 1963 by removing a 1/2 inch from the inside edge of the drums. The wheel bearings are the same. If you try to go the other way around the drum won't go on far enough even if you change the shoes.

[tdods61]

Thanks for all the help. I'm pretty sure from what he told me they are 64's and won't work. I gave him the part numbers to see if he can find them stamped on the drums and also told him to measure the inside dimension on the wearing surface of the front drums. From the information I can find the wear surface on the front drum is 2-1/2" for 64 and the 65-68 is 2-3/4". I'll have to see what he comes up with and go from there. If they are 64s I may pass on them I don't really need them and he's about 160 miles from my house and not sure if I want to go that far and end up buying something that won't fit and go through the hassle of trying to find or trade for the right ones.

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by Heybuck

LISTEN to what stevp says. If you have any oxidation (rust / corrosion) between the liner and the alloy drum, you will regret the purchase. Corrosion causes hot spots which in turn lead to brake shudder. And sometimes its violent shudder...

Once the corrosion starts, there is no hope for the drum. I had terrible luck with the 8-lug drums, and I'm in dry inland Southern California. We finally took them off our 2+2 after repeated attempts to solve the shudder problem. We would have the drums turned and they were perfect for a few months, and then slowly the corrosion would grow and push the liners out of round. I wouldn't say the corrosion caused hot spots, but physically pushed in on the liner making it out of round. We had them dressed out several times, and the shudder would return in a few months. They were never too bad on normal stops around town, but trying to bring the car down from freeway speeds produced shake that was extremely violent. Again, smooth stops at any speed right after the drums were turned, and always reverted to shudder and shake within a month or two.

I'd love to have them professionally relined some day because I think that as long as the aluminum drum was cut back to virgin aluminum before installing the liner, the corrosion problem would be totally removed.