[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 65madgoat

Yeah, if you care about the cost of gas when owning/driving a vintage car - go buy a prius. You are not meant for this hobby. Ha. I drive my 675hp 1969 Firebird a lot. 10mpg at best. Happy it is 10 so it is easier to calculate mileage per tank. Doh.

Around here we go by "smiles per gallon".

K

[jhein]

I know that the concept of fuel economy comes up here, but it's usually in the context of tuning for optimal performance, so that's different.

I once took a work acquaintance for a ride in my Superformance Cobra. The first thing he asked me when were got going was what kind of gas mileage did it get. I just looked over and shook my head. Then I banged it through the gears and I think he nearly peed his pants. That one gave me many "smiles per gallon".

Of course, he drove some POS, little Ford compact "SUV" that he always complained it struggled to go uphill when he had his kayak on top. LOL.

[Stan65]

Guess I’ll throw out my 2 cents now devalued to literally zero.

I would have a hard time modding a numbers matching car. Once the original engine is gone at that point what does it matter. It’s only original once.

I built a 71 formula 400 4 speed that is now a 71 trans am clone with a LT4/TKX. You want to talk about a fun car to drive! I started with a $200 carcass and now I have a $100k plus car.

I have recently purchased a 73 TA d-port auto. It’s missing the engine, but I am struggling with this one because it is a “real” TA.


All I can say is I appreciate original and modified. Mostly appreciate quality!

[kingbuzzo]

Wow you've done a lot of work to her Stan...nice

[72projectbird]

I have both LS powered and Pontiac powered Pontiacs. I like both platforms.

My 71 has an LS in it. I got it out of a rolled over 2005 Silverado. Made the standalone harness myself. Swapped the intake, threw in a healthy camshaft, long tubes, and a 3200rpm converter. When that car is idling, it almost sounds like a highish compression Big Block Chevy crossed with a Pontiac. Nobody knows what's in it unless I open the hood.

I always get a kick out of the guys who come up to me after hearing the car, and want to know all about it. They say they recognize the sound of a big cubic inch engine. It's always fun watching their expression when I open the hood. It's either confusion mixed with disgust, or they're interested and want to know more.

I guess the funny thing is, I have very little into the swap. By the time I sold the engine and trans that was in it, I think I was about $1000 out of pocket, and it'll absolutely stomp on the previous combo.

[Scarebird]

Wow, Stan - that car won the lottery!

[Half-Inch Stud]

My neighbor is tripping over LS stuff in his garage. His nephew has an SS El Camino with a large LS engine: sounds real darn good through Spin-Tech mini mufflers and tailpipes. Well, if could hold an idle he'd be content.

Built him a coupla TH400s for his BBCs, 1 which should end up in a late 50's Wagon. He's knee-deep in rock-crawlers, mudders, ratrods, Long Yellow School Bus Diesel RV, and Pontoon boat fishing. Flathead V8 Ford in full original dress sits on a tire in his garage, "is neat so it's gonna go in something". I just walk my dog to his garage whenever his garage door is open. Like a big darn hangout.

I find the LS lacking in ascetics with coils on Valvecovers. Geez, an LS with an HEI, or heck Quad Coils like my Towncar 4.6 would be soo much better. I insist on bare Valvecovers.

Oh, the point; i plan to borrow a few LS heads, study the valvetrain parts, and see how i can adapt such parts to the Pontiac Head for weight reductions. Better RPM Reliability is my goal.

LS Head items of advantage: Retainers & Springs, maybe the valvestem Dias. Anybody know if LS valves get to 2.11" ( edit; 2.16") or 1.77" for Exhaust?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Stan65

Guess I’ll throw out my 2 cents now devalued to literally zero.

I would have a hard time modding a numbers matching car. Once the original engine is gone at that point what does it matter. It’s only original once.

I built a 71 formula 400 4 speed that is now a 71 trans am clone with a LT4/TKX. You want to talk about a fun car to drive! I started with a $200 carcass and now I have a $100k plus car.

Pontiac blue engine is a nice touch.

K

[Keith Seymore]

I came very close to buying a Nocturne Blue '63 GP out of Norwalk Ohio, less engine.

This must have been early 2000's. At the time the Escalade was 403HP net (same engine in the Hummer H2 was 398 HP). I figured I could find a crashed one and pull the motor and throw it in that GP.

I had to leave for vacation and by the time I got back the guy had sold it.

In the end I'm happy with my Pontiac powered black GP and I think things worked out for the best.

K

[Lee]

"PMD" - Pontiac MOTOR Division.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by Lee

"PMD" - Pontiac MOTOR Division.

Yes. And we-unz ought to seriously consider that PMD was an engine factory 1st, that put their engine and transmission developments into a Fisher body. The PMD styling department assured the body was a Pontiac. Except for GTOs, they didn't say Pontiac. Did Trans-Ams say Pontiac?

I'm thinking GTOs and Trams-Ams exteriors and interiors said PMD not Pontiac...for some/most years.

[mzbk2l]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Yes. And we-unz ought to seriously consider that PMD was an engine factory 1st, that put their engine and transmission developments into a Fisher body. The PMD styling department assured the body was a Pontiac. Except for GTOs, they didn't say Pontiac. Did Trans-Ams say Pontiac?

I'm thinking GTOs and Trams-Ams exteriors and interiors said PMD not Pontiac...for some/most years.

I'll agree with these sentiments; it's a large part of the reason I never got into my '79 10th Anniversary T/A - it had an Olds motor. I'm fine with an Olds in my '67 Cutlass convertible, but my Pontiacs should have Pontiac motors in them.

The Trans Ams in the late 70s did have Pontiac decals on them.

[JLBIII]

The rally II center caps on my 68 Firebird have "PMD" on them.

[Mr Anonymous]

Sometimes you can't win though. My late father's 53 Studebaker became Pontiac powered in the summer of '59. He was working at a Pontiac dealer. His hot rod club has a bunch of 53 Studebakers, dad's got the Pontiac engine, some got SBC, some Cadillac. Years later, I get it going, newer pontiac power (455 vs 389), and join a Studebaker FB group. I caught hell, they all said I was a f****g idiot and should pull the POS Pontiac engine and put a Studebaker one back in! My response was that it was Studebaker powered for 6 years and Pontiac powered for 50+, in spite of that cutting-edge flathead six cylinder immense power.

[Stuart]

By this line of reasoning, shouldn't we all be putting Oakland engines in our cars?

[Half-Inch Stud]

Oakland engines rock!

[jhein]

How about because they're just beautiful?

They really are good looking motors.

[433lemans]

When I walk up to your Pontiac at a car show, drag race, whatever, and see anything under the hood other than traditional Pontiac power, no matter how nice the rest of the car might be, I will give a "meh" and walk on without a further look. Yup, Pontiac MOTOR Division as was said.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by jhein

How about because they're just beautiful?

They really are good looking motors.

They are really pretty, in any of their colors. If they weren't so aesthetically pleasing, many of the LS transplants wouldn't work so hard at trying to make them look like a Pontiac V-8. I think the Chrysler Hemi and the 409 Chevy are good looking as well. 348/409 valve covers offer instant recognition.

[misterp266]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

They are really pretty, in any of their colors. If they weren't so aesthetically pleasing, many of the LS transplants wouldn't work so hard at trying to make them look like a Pontiac V-8. I think the Chrysler Hemi and the 409 Chevy are good looking as well. 348/409 valve covers offer instant recognition.

Agreed. I’d add Buick nailheads to that list. I like “different” engines. Always thought that disguising an engine to look like a different engine was stupid. Why paint an LS Pontiac blue and put Pontiac emblems on the valve covers?

I think that people who’s first car was a Pontiac with Pontiac power are more likely to be loyal to Pontiac power. Plus if you’re older, like me, brand loyalty means a lot more. These days it seem like whatever the easy route is, that’s the way to go.