[endunator]

I was wondering what folks here thought about frame reinforcing kits. I was considering the Hellwig FX 11100 and the Summit 770800.
Thanks.

[Scarebird]

A lot of money for minor gain.

[endunator]

I see. Even if your goal is much better handling? I want to reduce body roll.

[Kenth]

GM used swaybars, front and rear, to cure body roll.
Also, there is reinforcement braces located between upper and lower front mounts on rear control arms.

Parts available at https://secure.amesperf.com/qilan/Welcome

[endunator]

Ok thanks but now I'm confused because of reviews of the products by purchasers stating it makes a huge difference in handling. Plus the frames of SS convertibles are boxed for strength and rigidity. Plus if you are going to put a cage in a car you need to box the frame below it.

['ol Pinion head]

The biggest improvement one typically sees in any kind of A-body build, freshening up, or in a true restoration, where the car has a lot of miles on it &/or previously sat outside in the elements most of its life, is replacing the body bushings. Have several gallon ziplock bags of original body bushings that are near 50 years old, & have held up very well & we have reused them. Such condition used original body bushings are the exception! If your A-body is from up N or from other regions where moisture has rusted several of the body bushing holes in the frame, those holes will need to be repaired before new bushings can be installed.

Have pulled dozens upon dozens of frames out of parts & project A-bodys over the last 3 decades. From what I typically see on frames here in Southern Plains & from further West, occasionally there may be issues may be with the front outboard frame mount holes. When rusted out, or deeply rust pocked, I've taken some scrap steel, cut several pieces off with the band saw, making needed small square pieces w the correct sized hole, then have carefully positioned, scribed on the frame, then cut a hair wider piece out of the afflicted frame mount area with cutoff wheel. Last carefully MIG welded, then dressed the welds down so the repair is not noticeable. Thats the only way I'll repair prev rusted bushing holes.

Many times on rusty cars the body bushing bolts are rusted. On '71's & 72 A-body's there are 3 different length body bolts used down each side of the frame. The shortest goes in next to the front seat belt retractors. original bolts had a washer type head on them, that keeps the 5/8" head from sliding up into the socket, when replacing them. Removing body bolts, there's a correct way & there is the "I just gotta use my new cordless impact" way. The latter often will cause rusted body bolts to snap, leaving a portion stuck in the captured nuts in the body structure.

[endunator]

I see Ol Pinion Head. Thanks for the info. I will be sure to repair any rust around mount holes but I am still undecided as to how to proceed with the frame.

[Paul E]

The frame reinforcement kit will make the frame slightly stiffer. But I do not know how it will help body roll.
The common items I know that will help with body roll are:
Stiffer coil springs but will give a harsher ride.
Stiffer front sway bar more spring rate less stiff ride (I have this)
aftermarket rear sway bar that mounts to the frame instead of the lower rear control arms (I have this)
Watts link that is made to control body roll (I have this)
I am extremely happy with the smooth straight ride and outstanding handling when cornering. I also have adjustable front upper control arms and tubular lowers for ball joint placement but these do very little with body roll, but alignment settings.

[north]

The boxed convertible frames used on convertibles were significantly more rigid than the regular unboxed coupe frames. The boxed frame was offered on coupes as part of towing packages and I recall driving in a 70 GTO coupe of a friend which had been so ordered. Inversely I had a friend who had inadvertently replaced the frame on his 70 convertible with a coupe unit. The boxed frame makes the coupe drive nicer with less body flex and that ragtop with the coupe frame was noticeably wiggly. A good factory example of this is to simply drive in a 69-72 GP and then a 70-72 A body of similar condition and mileage, there is a very noticeably more modern feel to the GP versus the A body, because the GP frame was boxed.

However I tend to agree with the other comments here that condition of components and rust degradation of structure is far more important than which frame you have. Also a stiffer frame improves body structure which in itself doesn't necessarily improve handling. That being said a more rigid structure presents a better foundation for improved handling if you upgrade the suspension system itself.

[Scarebird]

I looked at Paul E's sway bar and was not impressed by the unsprung weight penalty. I fabbed my own as shown, the calculations show the same rate as the OEM bar but without the binding issues.



If you are down to the bare frame, I would use the weld in convertible channel as noted earlier. You will need convertible fluid lines also.



Other improvements would be:

SCC Stage 2 tall ball joint kit
1-1/4" front sway bar
Koni shocks
600 Series steering box (not the GC box but the Delphi unit)
Spherical rear control arm bushings

That is far as you can go with the stock frame.

[Paul E]

Scarebird knows his stuff and is also correct with the steering modifications and my front is pretty much the same as his, but SC&C has gone out of business. For body roll the Watts Link (Fays2.net) ad sway bars are pretty much what you can do a few different ways. I think the way Scarebird and I have while different are better than stock mounting on the lower rear control arms For improved handling then that would be other mods. Improved steering geometry mods or spherical rear control arm bearings ( I have and recommend for a good handling package) will not really help much with body roll but could make it happen faster....

Best advice is to do have a strategy to improve and not do anything twice! If taller ball joints use stiff stock springs as the ball joints will lower the car also,
Good luck and have fun.
Paul

[comanchefirebird]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

The biggest improvement one typically sees in any kind of A-body build, freshening up, or in a true restoration, where the car has a lot of miles on it &/or previously sat outside in the elements most of its life, is replacing the body bushings. Have several gallon ziplock bags of original body bushings that are near 50 years old, & have held up very well & we have reused them. Such condition used original body bushings are the exception! If your A-body is from up N or from other regions where moisture has rusted several of the body bushing holes in the frame, those holes will need to be repaired before new bushings can be installed.

Have pulled dozens upon dozens of frames out of parts & project A-bodys over the last 3 decades. From what I typically see on frames here in Southern Plains & from further West, occasionally there may be issues may be with the front outboard frame mount holes. When rusted out, or deeply rust pocked, I've taken some scrap steel, cut several pieces off with the band saw, making needed small square pieces w the correct sized hole, then have carefully positioned, scribed on the frame, then cut a hair wider piece out of the afflicted frame mount area with cutoff wheel. Last carefully MIG welded, then dressed the welds down so the repair is not noticeable. Thats the only way I'll repair prev rusted bushing holes.

Many times on rusty cars the body bushing bolts are rusted. On '71's & 72 A-body's there are 3 different length body bolts used down each side of the frame. The shortest goes in next to the front seat belt retractors. original bolts had a washer type head on them, that keeps the 5/8" head from sliding up into the socket, when replacing them. Removing body bolts, there's a correct way & there is the "I just gotta use my new cordless impact" way. The latter often will cause rusted body bolts to snap, leaving a portion stuck in the captured nuts in the body structure.

Hi Roger,
Would you mind sharing sharing the "correct way" to remove body bolts? Your posts/comments/experience are really appreciated!!!
Thanks
Steve

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by Paul E

Scarebird knows his stuff and is also correct with the steering modifications and my front is pretty much the same as his, but SC&C has gone out of business...

Paul

Thank you for the kudos. I did not know Savitske went out of business, hopefully he is ok.

You are correct about the rear sphericals - not really needed but make the suspension more supple.

I believe the Howe tall ball joints and SPC tubular upper combo can be pieced together at Summit or other vendors.