[428GTO70]

Ok, the results are in kind of. I say kind of because it is kind of cool outside today, although it seemed my car would get hot no matter what before anyways. I took it for about a 15 minute drive after letting it idle for about 5 mins and the needle went up to about the half way mark which I assume to be 175 at the midway point so it was about 170-180 degrees,and held there while idling for about another 5 mins after I got back. and I am currently running with a gutted out t-stat. So if it were me, I wouldn't put in those pumps with the shorter vanes on them. I would return them and drop 16 bucks at autozone, and it isn't even a special order item...on the shelf just my opinion. One more thing, after parking I popped the hood and grabbed my hoses and they were merely luke warm, Before they would damn near scald my fingers if I were to try that! I hope this info has helped you guys!

[Old Goat 67]

Is that sweet picture or WHAT?

[NOZZLENUT05]

DAMN.....George..you should be making a small fortune by now...

[george kujanski]

Who woud've thought that such a simple post a while back would start such a series of discoveries about pump variations and resulting engine cooling successes.

Now about that world peace thing, what if......

George

[bills72sj]

Hi all,

This thread has been posted on a Yahoo Poncho group email list which what has brought me here. I subscribed to PY quite awhile back but only visit rarely. I have a 72 Grand Prix 455 that usually stays cool enough, but earlier this week in 85* weather, the coolant crept past the halfway mark on the stock gage. I have a stock 4-core radiator. I also changed the coolant to that 5-year stuff but after just one year it looks like mud. After reading 14 pages of posts I am going to pull it apart and check the clearances/impeller style. I'll also probably go back to the normal green anti-freeze. is there any consensus regarding the proper flushing proceedure?

Thanx in advance.

[george kujanski]

Bill: since you say your anti-freeze looks like mud, here's what I would do. Since you will be taking it apart, I would take off the radiator and flush it backwards, i.e. run water into the bottom and out the top. I would use the heater hoses and run water backwards thru the core to flush crud out of it, just attach a hose nozzle to the hose going back to the pump. The block would be a good thing to flush also; perhaps removing a freeze plug or two wouldn't be a bad idea in your case.

How long does it take to read these 14 pages, anyway?

George

[68lemans462]

Since this is a very "cool" topic, I have combined everything up to this point into a Microsoft Word document. Its alot easier to read that way. It is posted on my website. If you dont have a broadband connection, you can forget about downloading this file. If you have broadband, ENJOY!! p.s. Beware when printing, it is about 50 pages. Cooling Word Document

[grandville455]

Check this sh** out since I liked 428's picture of his pump I had my gf pick opne up back at her home town when she was seeing her parents and this is what i got.......Unbelievable!

[grandville455]

now the pump!!

[428GTO70]

doesnt that suck! I guess it is a roll of the dice on what impellar is on those things! You may end up having to goto a coupe different stores and ask to look in the boxes to get what you want. Thats amazing, but trust me I have that same kind of luck on a lot of things . Dont let it beat you! You'll get the right one with some persistance.

[george kujanski]

What a crap shoot!

George

[grandville455]

This is just FR****** unbelievable!! I wanted to get one like you 428 as i have the smaller vaned one too I bought from champion auto here in town and wanted to have both so when I do my cam change next weekend i would have two ,cause I have no idea whats on there now but it runs awesome not one bit of over heating!,but its got a bad bearing

[Malky]

Grandville,
You could pull the good impeller off your old pump if you have the three balance holes. I made up a puller and got the impeller off a '73 pump and a '68 pump quite easily. The bolts in the photo are 5/16" with the heads ground to a T shape so they can be finagled into the balance holes. I clamped the pump in a vice with the impeller up, poured water in around the seal, and heated the impeller hub. The water stops the seal frying.
Malcolm

[grandville455]

Thanks Malcolm I'll keep that in mind,But i am persistant and will find the one I need ,lol

[dreamingmuscle]

Wouldn't malky idea work to just pull the impeller a little closer to the divider plate? Rather than beating it into compliance.

Glen

[george kujanski]

I'd say it would work and the spacing of the impeller on the shaft is probably one of the reasons for the poor fits we are seeing. In some cases we have seen, the OEM impeller vanes are higher and give the best fit. Beating on the divider plate is easy to do, tho. Everyone has a BFH, even tho one doesn't need the Big one to do the job.

[grandville455]

Ok guys Update on this forever confusing pump story I bought the one on the left from champion auto here in town remanufactured
by cardone# 58-303 ok,This is where it gets good ,lol The one on the right was bought from carquest here in town also..Also remanufactured by cardone,Cause I asked him who remanded it...Now both pumps have a casting # of 488296 on the front but yet one of them has the smaller impeller.wtf?....pics coming soon

[69RA3]

H20 pump spacer mod helped! George, THANKS!Other question need help with now.

Car Specs: 69 RA-III Conv, Fact A/C, 2Kmi on prof rebuild, #62 heads, 71cc chamber, 10:1 CR?, 041 melling cam, was bored 0.030 over to 408ci, #7029270 R/A carb, Pertronix Igniter-II with the coil and wires to match, been adding some NOS Octane booster (Race Flavor) per tank lately, and seems to have decent vacuum.

Settings: Timing set 10deg BTDC. Advance works (jumps up to 30deg+ when rev'd). Fresh champion plugs installed gap 0.035.

Issue: Car always ran hot >220, so I drove only on cold days until I shipped car to California last November.

H20 PUMP: Cast Iron Impeller (Modified to 0.045 clearance) - flow improved! Thank you again, George!! But she still ran hot, 200+ after 15 minutes highway, 240+ when got off highway to city driving.

Observation: When got home, took turkey baste thermometer and radiator was 190 and engine was 240, then 250, then 260, then 280!!! Engine always cooks when I stop...suspect detonation problems? Carb is old, have brand new refurbished #7029270 on hand. Does predetonate just once or twice when I turn off the key, even worse when timing is 15deg advanced.

Latest: So I removed the Thermostat last night. Well, well. The car sticks around 190-210 all around, even in 80-85 degree on/off highway...yeah! But still, when I stop the darn temp jumps up & up & up.

Any ideas to try?

[grandville455]

Do you have a shroud?What fan are you running?

[george kujanski]

When you say temp goes up when you stop, does that mean the engine is still running or you've shut it down and it is heat soaking?

Since you say it runs on (diesels) once or twice when you shut down, that's symptomatic of early-'70's cars. They leaned out the mix and ran them hotter for emissions purposes and tended to diesel when shut down if the idle speed solenoid was not adjusted correctly. In any case, it seems you may be running lean; the higher compression doesn't help matters either as far as dieseling goes.

Your issue B4 you removed the stat indicates the stat was stuck, otherwise there would be no reason for the engine temp to climb and radiator to be much lower, (as long as the pump is working). From what I have seen, the engine temp will rise somewhat after slowing down from higher speed running, because at higher speed, (higher loading) the engine is producing more heat total, but the speed of the pump extracts the heat to the radiator. Once you slow down, the excess heat in the block rasies the temp since the pump is not moving the coolant as fast.

The situation should reach equilibrium, tho, the temp should peak out and reduce. With the t-sta out, How high will it go once you slow down, given the same driving profile? Does the temp peak and drop or keep going up seemingly without limit?

I'd say you are on the lean side, check your vacuum advance, also. If none of those suggestions work, your pump is not working as well as it should, not enuf air thru the radiator, (fan or clutch issue), clogged radiator, collapsing hose. Got to be one of those.

Anyone else have an idea?

George