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#1
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Clearance issue between cam bolt and timing cover
I bought a cam bolt and washer from Precision Automotive a few months ago. Last month I installed it, confirmed that I had 0.006" of end play on the cam (it's a torrington bearing setup from BOP Engineering), and then shortly after that I installed the timing cover using a paper gasket and ultra blue RTV (because that's all I had on hand). Today I decided to re-seal it because the blue RTV bugged me and I finally had some black on hand. When I removed the timing cover, I noticed some aluminum shavings on the cam timing gear. So I checked the inside of the timing cover and found this:
I'm not sure what the issue is. It could be the cam bolt head being too tall, or the washer being too thick, or the timing cover being too shallow (I really doubt this last one). This is what the bolt and washer look like, fully torqued with the eccentric sitting flush on the timing gear and the tang engaged in its slot: Anybody know what might be wrong here? I'm really glad I found this before trying to run the engine. There was no indication of any issue when I tried turning the engine over by hand. |
#2
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The stock cam bolt and washer sit below the fuel pump eccentric, so it looks like the bolt/washer combo you are using is too tall and rubbing against the timing cover.
I have a Simms torrington setup on my engine too, but it didn't come with that bolt/washer setup.
__________________
Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - 3.55 posi (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) |
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#3
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My timing set didn't come with a cam bolt or washer at all, those were purchased from a different source. I just checked the bolt/washer that I got from Butler, and the head of the bolt is MUCH shorter. Doesn't stick out past the eccentric at all. However the bolt is overall much shorter as well with maybe half as many threads going into the cam. The washer for both is the same thickness.
I'm thinking the head of the bolt provided by Precision Auto is just way too tall. I'll use the Butler bolt instead and hope there's enough threads. Luckily that bolt only gets tightened to 45 ft-lb anyways |
#4
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The stock washer is flat if using the fuel pump eccentric. There is an aftermarket washer that has a recess for the cam nose when you do not use the fuel pump eccentric. To me it looks like bolt head goes in a recess?
__________________
Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
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#5
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Yes, but taking into account the recess, the washer I got from Precision Auto has the same stacking height as the flat washer from Butler. The head of either bolt fits inside the recess. The washer definitely doesn't contribute to the extra height. It's all in the bolt head
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#6
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Quote:
https://butlerperformance.com/i-3164...fuel-pump.html
__________________
Ken '68 GTO - Ram Air II 464 - 236/242 roller - 9.5” TSP converter - 3.55 posi (build thread | walk around) '95 Comp T/A #6 M6 - bone stock (pics) |
The Following User Says Thank You to Verdoro 68 For This Useful Post: | ||
#7
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If bolt is longer might check depth of cam hole and make sure bolt isn't bottoming?
Otherwise try grinding the bolt head down and see if you can still get a socket on it?
__________________
John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
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#8
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You're right, the bolt is in fact intended for applications where the eccentric is eliminated. That's why the washer is so wide and has a recess. The washer itself isn't causing any issues though, and I definitely like it better than the standard one. It all seems to be working fine with the standard grade 8 bolt that I got from Butler, so all is well now.
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#9
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If you use it without the eccentric you flip it over. I have 2 motors with those because I am using an electric feul pump on them.
__________________
Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#10
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Oh I see, so it goes over the cam snout much like the eccentric currently does. Live and learn!
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#11
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I am glad you had to take it apart, because there does not look to be drop 1 of oil, on the timing chain, nor in the rollers which is even worse!
Am I correct in the way I am seeing that? If so that chain needs to be removed and soaked in oil.
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I do stuff for reasons. |
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#12
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It soaked in automatic transmission fluid overnight after I cleaned it in an ultrasonic parts washer, then it was coated in motor oil. It's as fully impregnated as it could possibly be. Just doesn't show up in pictures, I guess
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#13
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Maybe a dumb question, but why would you *not* install the eccentric. I would think if you someday decide to go back to a mechanical pump that would make the changeover a lot easier.
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#14
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That's a really good point. I doubt the eccentric causes any kind of significant imbalance, especially since the cam turns at half speed. I have no idea why anyone would eliminate the eccentric, even if they don't plan to use it, unless they just didn't have one on hand
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#15
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Incidentally, it's worth mentioning that Precision Automotive never replied to my email about this. Even if the issue was caused by my own misunderstanding, a reply would've been appropriate. I was willing to understand a late reply due to my email being sent shortly before Thanksgiving, but it's been over 3 weeks now. I'm not impressed.
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#16
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Some people like the "solid" attachment of the "Butler washer/cup" vs the factory set-up if they are not going to run a mechanical pump. The factory set-up can cause a light rattle noise without the fuel pump arm preload riding on the outer cup. Generally, not a deal breaker either way.
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#17
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Quote:
Jim
__________________
Jim Moshier 1971 Grand Prix 462ci SD Performance 6x heads 1962 Catalina 389 1968 Firebird 400-455 I haven't decided "If we ever forget that we're one nation under GOD, then we will be a nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan |
#18
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Quote:
__________________
Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
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