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#1
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Front air dam
I am wondering If a front air dam would help the aerodynamics of a 67 GTO at 135 mph. I like the look without it but hell if I pick mph I could deal with it.
Anyone have pic's of a front air dam on their car? |
#2
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I was going to put a 69 Camaro chin spoiler on my 66 but haven’t done it yet.
I put one on my 69 Charger and it just kind of blends in. |
#3
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Unless you can get the front end low enough to make it aerodynamically useful, it will be just added weight.
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Less said,,,,,,,, Less mended. |
#4
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The idea is to keep the air out from under the chassis of the vehicle.
Air banging around on lower control arms, the bellhousing and the oil pan, the transmission, and in some cases the exhaust system/Mufflers created aero drag. I did a bunch of aero work for Travis Quillen and Rodney Butler on their 63 Tempest. (Both the front of the car and the rear of the car (WING Design) as well as the sides of the car (wheel openings). It worked as he went 6.20s at 228 mph in the quarter. The other thing is to get the air that does pass thru the grill/radiator away from the firewall as quickly as possible with air extractors like a Trans Am has but honestly would screw up the looks of the body. John Cleeg did none of those things and still ran 194 mph in the Texas Mile with his 64 Supercharged Pontiac engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWJKqWCspWI Just saying. Not worth the bang for the buck with your vehicle. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#5
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a well designed splitter would help also
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#6
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If it's low enough, it may change how you stage and even affect your RT? I was under the impression some classes didn't allow it??
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#7
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My answer would be: it depends.
Aero is a funny thing. It's not always intuitive and you really never know unless you "smoke it" in a wind tunnel, or in some other way test so that you can visualize it. We decided one time to remove the parking lamp on truck and replace it with a cold air inlet for the engine. Didn't work at all. When we smoked it in the tunnel we immediately saw the air was hitting the inboard side of the inlet, shooting across the surface and coming right back out the outboard side of the inlet. No air was going IN the tube. Totally not intuitive. Similarly, on the Volt program, we would add all these little "skegs" that could be worth one, two, three, five "counts". The problem was that while you were consciously making changes on one end of the vehicle you could be unconsciously making changes on the other end of the vehicle of similar or greater magnitude, polluting your results. My summary is the same as Tom's: if you add a small air dam that forces air through the radiator and into the engine compartment = worse. Better for cooling, but worse for aero, because all that air is getting trapped like a parachute in the engine compartment and would need to be adequately vented. If you added a large air dam, under the bumper, that forces air around the vehicle instead of under it: better. It would be similar to adding smooth body pans to streamline the underside of the vehicle. K
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 Last edited by Keith Seymore; 11-23-2022 at 11:20 AM. |
#8
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This might also not be totally intuitive but "as low as possible" is best.
The drag is a function of the frontal area. But the frontal area is not just the "front of the car": it includes all of that area extrapolated down to the ground. So lowering the vehicle reduces the frontal area and therefore reduces the aerodynamic drag. This is a well known fact and has totally been borne out in NASCAR racing. The bigger the area the more there is to be gained. We lowered our 5th wheel travel trailer 2" and picked up several MPG on the open road. And - here again, this has the added benefit of less air going underneath the vehicle. It's free (or can be) and a variable within your control. K
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 Last edited by Keith Seymore; 11-23-2022 at 11:43 AM. |
#9
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Quote:
The spoiler would have to be 3" above the ground.(the staging lights are lower than 3") Most tracks don't allow the extended 'thingie' on front of the car to trigger the finish line lights. (like on most of the street outlaw cars on TV)
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
The Following User Says Thank You to johnta1 For This Useful Post: | ||
#10
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[QUOTE=johnta1;6388621
Most tracks don't allow the extended 'thingie' on front of the car to trigger the finish line lights. [/QUOTE] Is there a rule preventing someone from changing the wheel base or length of the car or how much front overhang you can have? Make the whole car longer by 2 ft keep the rear wheels where they are and shorten the wheel base 6inches. Gain 2.5’ on the competition till they copy you. I don’t need an answer, just thinking crazy ideas out loud.
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73 T/A 455, 4speed |
#11
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Quote:
You trip the starting beam with the front wheels, and you trip the finish line beams with the front wheels. K
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
#12
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Quote:
OP, Instead of butchering a 67 A-Body Vehicle (it would look nothing like the original vehicle) if you are really after AERO improvements put the drivetrain in a much newer GM body where lots of GM $$$$ went into the aero design. Thanks Keith for the great Aero Example. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#13
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I assume this is purely for drag racing? Would adding aero components to the car put it into a different class?
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#14
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Quote:
On my dragster, when building it, the front nose can only extend so far in front of the tire/spindle mount. (2 feet seems to come to mind on that) Also the nose had to be 3" above ground (or more). Also dangling chickens aren't allowed. (story for another time)
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#15
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Quote:
The Quillen/Butler 63 Tempest (with lots of aero improvements) allowed that body/chassis to run 6.27 in the quarter at 228 mph years ago. It had a proper wing on the back, windshield angle changes (I believe). A front spoiler that was very low to the ground and had proper flares to keep the outside air away from the inner wheel wells. The Turbo Exhaust outlets faced upward to apply more down force on the front of the body/chassis. All of the aero modifications were based off of Lockheed Wind Tunnel studies on other vehicles tested at that location. Smoke Wand information helps show & explain aero patterns. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#16
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Quote:
For heads up class racing it would depend on those specific sets of rules. K
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
#17
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Quote:
Some cars trip the 60' clocks with the rear wheels. If you trip the finish line clocks with the rear wheels you are either (a) driving a AA/FA, or (b) in big trouble. K
__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
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