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  #141  
Old 12-03-2022, 08:07 PM
pont3 pont3 is offline
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Personally, I have never been a Buick fan, however, I AM a GM fan and I take exception to the attacks on GM. My current daily driver is a 2004 PONTIAC GTO that I bought new in 2004. It has 106k miles and still retains its original spark plugs, air filter, and pretty much everything else. It still starts up every time and runs perfectly, and I haven't spent any money on repairs. The repairs that it required were performed by me and that includes brakes, struts, and the radiator. Even the belts and hoses are original. Everything on this car still performs as delivered. Now, I'm sure there are some out there who may have a totally different accounting than mine, but it will probably come from those who have modified their car in some way. My car is TOTALLY stock, and has never been raced.

I've bought, with the exception of an '85 and '89 Cougar, GMs all my life, and that includes ONE Oldmobile. But they all have served ME well,

I actually liked the Buick Enclave but my wife wanted a Cadillac, so that's what she got. My point is , you feel resentment toward GM for certain divisions, why does that make you hate GM entirely?

  #142  
Old 12-03-2022, 09:48 PM
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242177P 242177P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrotica View Post
They, GM, killed Pontiac. That is why many people participating in this thread, hate GM.
There's a distinction that needs to be made. Old GM. New GM. They themselves made that crystal clear when they left 07-08 Impala owners in the lurch over a safety recall. Thing is, they still wanted business from the police departments so they honored the recall, but just for them. Civilians are second-class. The federal government told GM to drop Pontiac or they wouldn't get a bailout, and that's straight from Bob Lutz. Old GM built the 04-06 GTO. New GM killed Pontiac.


Last edited by Stuart; 12-04-2022 at 12:39 PM.
  #143  
Old 12-03-2022, 10:25 PM
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New GM sucks, and old GM wasn't far behind them. Seems to me that old GM made the decision that benefited new GM, so they can both go to hell.

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  #144  
Old 12-03-2022, 10:54 PM
1965gp 1965gp is offline
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I don’t really see it as an attack on GM, it’s just a different philosophy. I too have a 2004 GTO I bought new and I loved the ads, the movie they made with it and the 69 Judge…..quite honestly the excitement of the purchase. I had GTO clubs and forums to hang out with; it was a cool, fun car that was well worth it for me to part with my money.

The problem for me is GM doesn’t offer that now. They offer non-offensive vehicles. I don’t mean in a political way, I mean that the designs are soft and mundane so that people don’t think they are ugly. That’s very different to designing a car people fall in love with.

When was the last time a GM product came out (besides the C8- I will agree that was a good job) where you had the feeling that no matter what, you just had to have it!! Debt, payment, nothing mattered because you had to have it!

For me, and maybe you it was 2004. The last newer car I felt that way about was our 2020 Hellcat. I searched every day for the right color and options and flew to another state to buy it. Right now Dodge is selling passion and GM is selling very nice appliances.

Not saying they don’t make a good product, I’m saying that personally it doesn’t appeal to me. And I honestly don’t think they are trying to appeal to me.
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  #145  
Old 12-04-2022, 01:14 PM
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I've never been one to say the that I had to have something, regardless of debt, payment.... I'm just not wired that way.

But if I were given a hundred grand on the stipulation I had to buy a high performance car, I wouldn't cross the street to buy a Hellcat, regardless of color. But I'd go from one side of the country to the other to get a CT5V Blackwing in the right color with a 6 spd manual. It looks better (IMHO) than the Hellcat, it will runs circles around the Hellcat on the backroads, and if I wanted an automatic transmission it would compete quite well with a Hellcat on the strip (if I cared about that).

The slight lack of horsepower in the Blackwing is more than made up by the roughly 500 pounds less tonnage of the Hellcat. Which means straight line performance is close, but handling is far better.

As to how it sounds compared to the Hellcat - I really don't know or care. Loud, angry exhausts aren't my cup of tea. A healthy sounding exhaust is more than sufficient (and the Blackwing has that) for my tastes.

How many threads on this forum are about exhaust systems that are noisy and drone so much they take the enjoyment out of driving?

GM (old or new) doesn't "suck" anymore than any of the other manufacturers today. In all honesty, they are some of the best built cars and trucks on the road today. In the most recent JD Power long term dependability survey (of original owners of 2019 vehicles), All GM brands are above average. So are Ford and Lincoln.

Mopar? Well, 1 (Dodge) out of 4 (Ram, Jeep, Chrysler) is an improvement over 2021 (2018 models). Mercedes, Nissan, VW, Audi, Volvo, Honda and Acura are all below average.

  #146  
Old 12-04-2022, 01:25 PM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Will the awesome mid engine corvette not smoke em all?????? thing looks like the batmobile. take that over a sedan looking car or hellcat any day. goin high end, swing for the fence.

Gm sells buick to china

  #147  
Old 12-04-2022, 01:33 PM
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If all my buying decisions are based on company politics and ethics, I wouldn’t be able to buy very much.. I certainly don’t find much difference between GM, Ford, Chrysler or any other car company, especially if we are talking about looking after customers or how they run their business. It seems to me very few large companies in any business are great corporate citizens, starting with how they treat employees to everything else. I find the new wave of chasing ESG scores to be making things worse instead of better.

I also want to avoid buying anything from China, but how is that even possible?

I think the only Chinese parts in my Pontiac motor are the PRW roller rockers and given how junky they are proving to be, those are on my list to remove. But I have lots of household items that are from China that work fine for the purpose they were bought, so I’m feeling rather stuck.


My GMC trucks have been great, but when buying a new car I tend to by German stuff now.

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  #148  
Old 12-04-2022, 05:24 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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My whole thing for liking Dodge was spurred on by GM killing Pontiac right at around the time the Challenger came out.

Yes, it's a big car compared to the other "pony" cars, but it has ample room for front AND rear passengers, looks cool and isn't a slug;
It really helps that they have had some fun advertising in the years leading up to Pontiac's demise, and continue to be the only ones having fun...



My brothers are both, like me, Pontiac guys who have been forced to move on;
One of them at first balked at the Shelby cars, but had a change of heart shortly after Pontiac was killed off and bought a GT500;
A couple years later he rented a Challenger maybe because I told him how much fun I had with the first one I rented (rental fleet Challengers are always V6/auto, or R/T-5.7l/auto cars) - Unsurprisingly he complained that it wasn't nearly quick enough to match looks and sound;
but he was comparing against a lighter car with a six speed manual and wayy more horsepower, so I wasn't too surprised by his assessment.

If I was to buy a new car, there is only one model that appeals to me, and by the sounds of things, Dodge is short on time for holding my interest (if I have understood correct, they are going full electric for their performance cars VERY soon).

My previous bias towrads GM made me incline to give the Camaro an honest shake, but lack of useable rear seat room and the terrible rear visibility made me strike it off the list.
Because of my turbo-4 "compromise car" I have kept an eye on the turbo-4 cars too - I don't know why GM put out a turbo-four Camaro, and by all accounts made it so "bland" - It's as though GM laid off all performance minded people from their design departments.
I briefly was in a turbo-four cylinder Mustang rental, and my assessment was that my Cobalt would easily embarrass it... which I think says alot considering how close to stock my Cobalt remains.

At one time, you could walk into a Pontiac dealership and there would be several different perfomance versions of models that could hold your attention - several already mentioned in this discussion.

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Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
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1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #149  
Old 12-08-2022, 06:02 PM
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kingbuzzo kingbuzzo is offline
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I thought they were killing the crapmaro due to poor sales...




  #150  
Old 12-08-2022, 06:18 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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unless you attached the wrong link, that was an image of an escalade...???
(the image doesn't appear in your post in this thread, but I saw it in my email alert for this thread)

Edit;
I tried something different and quoted your post to see a url that was left off your initial post - but is there... just not visable.

HERE is the link incase anyone else missed it.

I thought that in the not too distant past, GM announced that not just the current generation of Camaro was going to be retired, but the car was going to be cancelled...
put out to pasture...
leaving like it did in 2002...
with no insinuations that it would come back...

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #151  
Old 12-08-2022, 06:46 PM
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kingbuzzo kingbuzzo is offline
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oh sorry, I forgot to link the article:

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/12/08/...de-sub-brands/

Trying to work and goof off here at the same time is the worst...lol

oh, and they are sub branding caddy allegedly too but it's too rich for my blood so I don't even think about it...lol

  #152  
Old 12-12-2022, 01:41 PM
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kingbuzzo kingbuzzo is offline
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Default EVette hybrid leaks...

https://www.engadget.com/chevy-corve...s&guccounter=1


  #153  
Old 12-19-2022, 07:52 PM
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This!
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be a simple...kinda man.
  #154  
Old 12-20-2022, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Man View Post
This!
Beautiful car that I've always liked.

But it's not a Buick, it's an Opel GT, imported by GM from Germany and sold by Buick dealers as an Opel...

My Dad was the top salesman at a Buick/Pontiac/GMC/Opel/AMC dealership from 1963 - 1982.

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