#21  
Old 11-17-2020, 11:02 AM
78w72 78w72 is offline
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mounted behind bumpers? in the trunk? under the car?? highly unlikely anyone with a classic car is going to mount a bypass filter there. lets be reasonable here... these analogies of "keep it in the garage if you dont want it to break" or "you will have to pull an engine because it wears out without a bypass filter" are severely flawed & rather misleading... not using a bypass filter is not going to cause any engine to break or wear out in anyones average time of owning it. apparently the fact that modern cars go to 200-300k+ miles regularly with standard filters is overlooked or avoided by some.

classic cars are driven so rarely these days that it would take 30+ years to reach 90k miles for most & even with poor oil change intervals the engine would still run fine after that & not wear out with modern oils. on a daily driver it would take just as long to reach 200k+ miles, who keeps their daily driver cars for 20-30 years? most people change the oil a lot sooner than needed & by design oil keeps debris in suspension that never see any real metal to metal contact, these ultra fine particles mentioned that will allegedly make an engine wear out never really touch anything to cause any measurable wear. has anyone here ever compared an engine with a bypass to one without & saw excessive wear from the normal filter within an average lifetime of the engine/car? if so please post the results. again, over the road & fleet vehicles will see a benefit with 500k-1 million+ miles, the average daily or classic car, not so much.

& you cant say youre not going to belabor the point of bypass filters when you write multiple long paragraphs about it... this thread wasnt about bypass filters at all, but they sure do get brung up an awfully lot when not asked about... my post was just stating facts about the reality of them compared to standard filters in the average car.

bottom line is use one if you want, but the fact is hardly anyone will bother with them when they dont have much of a measurable benefit to the average or classic car & its been proven for decades that millions & millions of engines do just fine without them.


Last edited by 78w72; 11-17-2020 at 11:09 AM.
  #22  
Old 11-17-2020, 11:31 AM
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I have to laugh at all the effort and care some of you people go to, to make sure you get the last drop of dirty oil out of the car, but no one will put a better filter system on the car to assure that none of the oil is actually dirty during the time it resides in the engine..........

Fifty years of servicing cars and machinery as my profession, and you're worrying about things that make nearly zero difference in the longevity of the engine, or the oil in it. Getting the last drop of oil out of the pan, or filling the filter before you start the engine is like spitting into the ocean to see how much it will raise in it's level.

My own vehicles currently running and driving:

1993 K3500, 6.5 turbo diesel, 270,000 miles
1995 C3500, 6.5 turbo diesel, 236,000 miles
2005 GTO LS2 (bought new) , 141,000 miles
2008 Vibe (bought new) , 312,000 miles
1999 Grand Prix 3.1 , 115,000 miles
1988 IH S1600 7.3 diesel , 212,000 miles

I feel that since I've maintained all of these vehicle, and never drained the oil overnight, pre filled the oil filters when changing them, etc. This record pretty well demonstrates that the little details in this discussion make no difference in the longevity of the engines.

I do have by pass filters on most of my vehicles, ones that don't, use the Purolator Boss filters, while not the best option, they are better than most OEM style filters. I will have all of these vehicles equipped with by pass filters as soon as I can get to them. I use Synthetic Rotella T 6 in the diesels, and Pennzoil Platinum synthetic in the gas vehicles. I believe I have a handle on the maintenance, and longevity of the engines in my fleet.

BTW, these are all factory issue engines, I've not rebuilt, or done major engine work on any of them.

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  #23  
Old 11-17-2020, 11:47 AM
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mounted behind bumpers? in the trunk? under the car?? highly unlikely anyone with a classic car is going to mount a bypass filter there. lets be reasonable here... .
And that's really the gist of it for 99% of the people here.

While I know bypass filtration works, you are pushing an uphill battle preaching that stuff on a forum full of classic cars. Not only is it not practical to mount those bulky systems on a classic car, many of us who have high dollar cars, correct restorations, and worry about clean and tidy appearances, simply will not be mounting an external filtration system on one of these cars. I won't even put one on my duramax, that thing has enough crap under the hood and underneath of it already.

Regular oil change service intervals don't bother me in the least bit, and we have a dozen vehicles here that all get driven. The money saving aspect isn't really a big deal, as I buy oil and filters in bulk once a year that get me through an entire fiscal year with pretty sizeable discounts.

We've had, and still have plenty of engines that have gone well past 100k miles with regular oil filters and oil. Dad bought his 69 GTO new, still owns it. The original engine was still running fine at 180,000 miles in the mid 80's before it was pulled for something faster. My son's 89 5.0 mustang has 254,000 miles on it and has never had a valve cover off of it. Doesn't smoke or burn a drop of oil. Hell I was just at the track with it power shifting it to 14.30's at 97 mph bone stock, about exactly where those cars ran when new. I'd say the internals are pretty healthy. Both of these cars use store bought filters and oil.

Not to mention nowadays with everyone going the overdrive route in classic cars I suspect the wear and tear is much less now than it was 40-50 years ago too.

Don't get me wrong, I do like bypass filter systems and I'm well aware of the benefits. I'm just not one to clutter my vehicles with it. It's just more practical to me to stick to oil change intervals and I'm okay with that.

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  #24  
Old 11-17-2020, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 78w72 View Post
classic cars are driven so rarely these days that it would take 30+ years to reach 90k miles for most & even with poor oil change intervals the engine would still run fine after that & not wear out with modern oils. on a daily driver it would take just as long to reach 200k+ miles, who keeps their daily driver cars for 20-30 years? .
Well......we do LOL

I guess we aren't the norm, but we daily drive our classics, rarely do we ever sell anything. We've already racked up just over 40k miles on the Z daily driving it the last 4 1/2 years. Just about everything we own, we've had for 30 or more years. Some of them over 50 years. Our family doesn't even own a new car.

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  #25  
Old 11-17-2020, 11:59 AM
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mounted behind bumpers? in the trunk? under the car?? highly unlikely anyone with a classic car is going to mount a bypass filter there. lets be reasonable here... these analogies of "keep it in the garage if you dont want it to break" or "you will have to pull an engine because it wears out without a bypass filter" are severely flawed & rather misleading... not using a bypass filter is not going to cause any engine to break or wear out in anyones average time of owning it. apparently the fact that modern cars go to 200-300k+ miles regularly with standard filters is overlooked or avoided by some.

classic cars are driven so rarely these days that it would take 30+ years to reach 90k miles for most & even with poor oil change intervals the engine would still run fine after that & not wear out with modern oils. on a daily driver it would take just as long to reach 200k+ miles, who keeps their daily driver cars for 20-30 years? most people change the oil a lot sooner than needed & by design oil keeps debris in suspension that never see any real metal to metal contact, these ultra fine particles mentioned that will allegedly make an engine wear out never really touch anything to cause any measurable wear. has anyone here ever compared an engine with a bypass to one without & saw excessive wear from the normal filter within an average lifetime of the engine/car? if so please post the results. again, over the road & fleet vehicles will see a benefit with 500k-1 million+ miles, the average daily or classic car, not so much.

& you cant say youre not going to belabor the point of bypass filters when you write multiple long paragraphs about it... this thread wasnt about bypass filters at all, but they sure do get brung up an awfully lot when not asked about... my post was just stating facts about the reality of them compared to standard filters in the average car.

bottom line is use one if you want, but the fact is hardly anyone will bother with them when they dont have much of a measurable benefit to the average or classic car & its been proven for decades that millions & millions of engines do just fine without them.
You're entitled to your opinion, research says there is a stark difference between the filters. They repay their cost on a vehicle driven within 50,000 miles. Mine paid for themselves in 35,000 miles, the reduction in engine wear is a no cost bonus.

I have no illusion that a car driven 1000 miles a year is going to repay the cost of the filter, but when you drive 10-12000 miles a year you will have a payback within 5 years.

F Rock has already posted that his modest filter investment is to protect the $8000 initial investment in his engine. You're a doubter, I was at one time too. Someday maybe you'll realize that there are better alternatives to the OEM system, or not.................

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  #26  
Old 11-17-2020, 12:06 PM
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That's all well and good. I'm just not interested, nor am I worried about oil filter savings. Nor will I install that stuff on the engines.

I'm not a doubter, if you read my post you'd see that. I already mentioned I'm well aware of the benefits. It's not that I doubt it works, it's that I don't want crap on the engine that doesn't belong there. Especially on a classic car. And you can walk an entire show field or cruise night and get the same answer from 99% of the classic car owners.
I'm going to Goodguys this weekend. Over 2,000 cars. I'll bet money there won't be a single car inside the event with a filtration system on it.


Now maybe someday, if the filtration industry ever sees a market for the classic cars (doubtful) they'll design something very compact that isn't an eye sore and give it a classic flare so it doesn't look out of place.

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  #27  
Old 11-17-2020, 12:10 PM
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& i have to laugh at the efforts you go to trying to claim all our engines are going to break or wear out if we dont use a bypass filter... even on threads that dont ask anything about bypass filters! but its been that way for years so why stop now?

thats great you choose to use them, but almost every single car you listed would reach those same miles without one & millions of cars do & are on the road today with as many or more miles using standard filters. do you have some type of proof or verified measurements to back up these claims of this severe wear caused by not using a bypass? i can list my own vehicles & family & friends that have gone the same amount of miles or more with standard filters & so can millions of other car owners.

we've debated the benefits or lack there of for bypass filters many times in recent years & you have yet to convince me that the average car or classic actually needs one, just your own opinion of how you think you are saving your engines from catastrophic failures....

ive stated numerous times i agree bypass filters are "better" than standard filters, but they have their place & the average car or classic car just isnt that place... youve made you points countless times, please quite telling everyone how they are damaging or going to break their engines if they dont use a bypass filter when its simply not true... especially when nobody asks about them.

  #28  
Old 11-17-2020, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Formulajones View Post
Well......we do LOL

I guess we aren't the norm, but we daily drive our classics, rarely do we ever sell anything. We've already racked up just over 40k miles on the Z daily driving it the last 4 1/2 years. Just about everything we own, we've had for 30 or more years. Some of them over 50 years. Our family doesn't even own a new car.
yes i know you do & you are able to because of the climate you live in,... the rest of "fly over country" & east coast & northern sates dont have that luxury & even if they did most classic cars are not daily driven.

you made very good points about the practicality of bypass filters & 99% or more of owners of these cars or daily drivers agree. just like yours i can provide numerous examples of my own cars, modern & classics that have never had a oil or filter related problem being driven to 100k+ miles on older v8 engines or disposable cars in my younger days to my current cars like a jeep cherokee that i drove to 200k+ miles using a cheap filter & oil, & never burned a drop of oil, i sold it a couple years ago & still see it driving around. & hundreds of millions of other cars on the road can get to those miles with normal filters & probably extended oil changes??? how is that possible if standard filters are causing all this damage?

ive stated my opinions, reasons & many facts about this here & in the past, so no need to drag it out any further. using a standard filter is not going to damage your engine & the proof is easy to see.

  #29  
Old 11-17-2020, 12:22 PM
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That's all well and good. I'm just not interested, nor am I worried about oil filter savings. Nor will I install that stuff on the engines.

I'm not a doubter, if you read my post you'd see that. I already mentioned I'm well aware of the benefits. It's not that I doubt it works, it's that I don't want crap on the engine that doesn't belong there. Especially on a classic car. And you can walk an entire show field or cruise night and get the same answer from 99% of the classic car owners.
I'm going to Goodguys this weekend. Over 2,000 cars. I'll bet money there won't be a single car inside the event with a filtration system on it.


Now maybe someday, if the filtration industry ever sees a market for the classic cars (doubtful) they'll design something very compact that isn't an eye sore and give it a classic flare so it doesn't look out of place.
FJ, If you read my quote I wasn't referring to you, was I? The quote was to 78 w 72.

Every time the subject comes up about by pass filtration, you state your stance, I know how you feel about the subject. I'm never going to convince you, or the other opponents that the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. I'm not trying to.

Thing is there are a bunch of people that are interested in the by pass filtration that may find the information helpful.

The same people in every thread voice their disdain for these filters, believe me I know who you are. The information is for people that have a more open opinion. I do get who it is and although I'm 67, my memory is still intact for the most part.

The difference is I use the product and can speak from experience. Someone that condemns the product, and have never tried it really has little to offer.

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  #30  
Old 11-17-2020, 12:37 PM
78w72 78w72 is offline
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You're entitled to your opinion, research says there is a stark difference between the filters. They repay their cost on a vehicle driven within 50,000 miles. Mine paid for themselves in 35,000 miles, the reduction in engine wear is a no cost bonus.

I have no illusion that a car driven 1000 miles a year is going to repay the cost of the filter, but when you drive 10-12000 miles a year you will have a payback within 5 years.

F Rock has already posted that his modest filter investment is to protect the $8000 initial investment in his engine. You're a doubter, I was at one time too. Someday maybe you'll realize that there are better alternatives to the OEM system, or not.................

youre entitled to your own opinion too... but you are not entitled to your own facts.

i pointed out many facts about how millions of cars reach the same miles as what you listed & more, none of them use bypass filters. how is that possible?

i also asked you to provide some type of evidence that the average car or classic shows any measurable wear with a standard filter compared to bypass, i will wait for that proof.

for (hopefully) the last time, i agree they are better filters, but they are intended for the types of vehicles i mentioned that see close to or over millions of miles & companies or owners that have numerous vehicles doing that kind of service that can benefit from it.

nobody needs to do research to see that millions of cars go to 200+300k miles on standard filters, if thats the case then they clearly are doing whats required of them. period. you can justify a bypass by money savings on oil & filters but the reality of that is adding 1 qt after high miles does not replenish the additives that break down or get used up from the normal use of the engine let alone the viscosity break down & shearing that occurs, theres a lot more to oil than just the filter...

there is no "disdain" from me, you keep missing the part where i agree they are a better filter, the point you just cant accept for some strange reason is they dont have any real benefit for the average car or classic car on this forum. explain how millions of cars go to 200-300k miles on standard filters if stnadard filters are so inferior, untill then you can use what you want, but telling everyone else they are ruining their engines with standard filters is getting rather tiresome.

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Old 11-17-2020, 01:07 PM
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LOL!

Only on PY can something so simple get dissected to death.

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  #32  
Old 11-17-2020, 01:28 PM
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Someone asked if a Bypass filter can be hidden from view in an engine compartment.
Yes it can; and very easily.
No one asked about the need for bypass filter.
Some folks just like the extra clean oil.
Lots of haters on here. Haters will hate.
LOL
Back to the topic no?

  #33  
Old 11-17-2020, 01:50 PM
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youre entitled to your own opinion too... but you are not entitled to your own facts.

i pointed out many facts about how millions of cars reach the same miles as what you listed & more, none of them use bypass filters. how is that possible?

i also asked you to provide some type of evidence that the average car or classic shows any measurable wear with a standard filter compared to bypass, i will wait for that proof.

for (hopefully) the last time, i agree they are better filters, but they are intended for the types of vehicles i mentioned that see close to or over millions of miles & companies or owners that have numerous vehicles doing that kind of service that can benefit from it.

nobody needs to do research to see that millions of cars go to 200+300k miles on standard filters, if thats the case then they clearly are doing whats required of them. period. you can justify a bypass by money savings on oil & filters but the reality of that is adding 1 qt after high miles does not replenish the additives that break down or get used up from the normal use of the engine let alone the viscosity break down & shearing that occurs, theres a lot more to oil than just the filter...

there is no "disdain" from me, you keep missing the part where i agree they are a better filter, the point you just cant accept for some strange reason is they dont have any real benefit for the average car or classic car on this forum. explain how millions of cars go to 200-300k miles on standard filters if stnadard filters are so inferior, untill then you can use what you want, but telling everyone else they are ruining their engines with standard filters is getting rather tiresome.
Then please use the block function, because I obviously do not, and will not ever agree with your "facts". I've done more research on the subject than you'll ever do, plus you've never used the product, have you?

There's a difference between heading off wear on all internal components, and "ruining an engine". I never stated that anyone is "ruining their engine, just that they can head off wear by having clean oil from start to finish.

After the years I have under my belt, I believe I do know what is beneficial to the health of any engine. I try to help other members here from knowledge gained by life experience. How me, trying to help other members on here is tiresome for you to listen to, is easily remedied, just block me in user CP, very simple.

No one knows everything about everything, I never claimed to, or suggested I did. I do know something about by pass filters and their applications, and benefits. I'm not going to be censored because I don't happen to agree with your views. It's a forum to discuss things, no one agrees with everyone else all the time.

I'm not going to spoon feed you all the articles that were written by GM, and SAE about the studies of by pass oil filters, and reduced wear, you're a big boy, and can use Google by yourself. " GM study of bypass oil filters, reducing engine wear" will get you started.

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  #34  
Old 11-17-2020, 05:25 PM
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There was a time in the 1970's that bypass oil filters were popular. I tried a couple different ones, including the one that used a toilet paper roll for the filter media. When changing that every 10,000 miles had collected a huge amount of contaminants. That particular application was on a 1973 400. The timing chain failed at 73,000 miles, which is similar to all the other Pontiacs I've owned.

Realistically, I don't see a reason to add a filter to the OEM system on our old Pontiacs. I can think of three reasons it's unnecessary not related to appearance. First, nearly all of us are unlikely to ever put 100,000 miles on our collector cars. Second, most of us change the oil and filter every year or two at typically 2,000-4,000 miles. That's quite different than our daily drivers, which typically go 200,000 miles plus before needing engine work. Third, it has not been established that an external oil filter actually does measurably extend the life of an automobile engine.

Feel free to disagree, but that's my opinion.

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  #35  
Old 11-17-2020, 06:16 PM
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Every oil viscosity and every oil filter post ends up the same way

If it wasn't Nauseating it would be comical

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